Jack Dykinga
Tim Parkin (00:00)
Hello and welcome to On Landscape Any Questions. I'm here with our normal co host Joe Cornish and we're very pleased for this episode to be to have Jack DeKinger here. we talked to to Jack in twenty eleven, fifteen years ago, during it was a a break from the natural the natural history museum, wasn't it? I think. We stopped for a while, we
Jack Dykinga (00:24)
Yeah, yes.
Tim Parkin (00:25)
were helping judge the competition. I think I'm not sure if you were judging as well, was that correct?
Jack Dykinga (00:30)
I think I was a speaker that year.
Tim Parkin (00:31)
Yeah. and and it was fantastic. And I I rem remember this because you were one of my heroes at the time because I got introduced to you from this book.
Jack Dykinga (00:45)
Okay.
Tim Parkin (00:46)
When I just started photography in about two thousand and four, and a friend of mine bought me the book for my birthday and said, That's great, but I'll never get involved in la not large format photography, that's that's silly. Lo and behold, another year later, all the digital was sold, and I was out with Joe Cornish and David Ward referring to your book regularly. It
Jack Dykinga (01:07)
It's just it's a sickness, Tim.
Tim Parkin (01:09)
it is. I'm still
joe cornish (01:10)
you
Tim Parkin (01:11)
building a dark room now, it's so I'll I'll still be going.
But yeah, hello and and welcome Jack. Nice to see you again.
Jack Dykinga (01:18)
Good to be here. In so many ways.
Tim Parkin (01:20)
we have we
joe cornish (01:20)
yeah.
Tim Parkin (01:22)
have a few questions from our readers, but I'm gonna hand over to to Joe for a second 'cause I think you've got a you've got a big list of questions, haven't you, Joe? So
joe cornish (01:28)
I have a
list of questions for Jack. I could be asking Jack questions all evening, Tim, so I'm just warning you beforehand. I mean, I actually was reading a report about two painters, two of greatest painters of the 20th century in the late, in the UK, late 20th century, Peter Prendergast and Len Tabner. And it was written by somebody called Mary,
Golly, she's a nun. Lady, what's she called? Anyway, Beckett is her surname. You may remember, Tim, but she the description of their work just chimed for me so well with what Jack does. And I just sort of be a useful way for people to understand how Jack's works on the viewer, which is, think that, you know, that you, you see the world in all its tangible reality with a reverent understanding.
and you are able to convey the experience of being in rather than simply looking at the landscape. And it just struck me, she used those terms about these painters, but actually to me, that's how your work works. You convey the sense of actually being there in the landscape and there is a reverent understanding in it. I don't know if that chimes for you or whether it works, but for me it does for your work.
Jack Dykinga (02:52)
Yeah, I mean I think it's a reflection of the journalistic background. You're basically d you know, documenting a place and then you're and it's sort of a a product of a curious mind. You know, I look at everything and say, what if or what is that and why is it why is it that way? And then you use images to kind of explain that to the viewer. And h hopefully you can do it in a composition that's pleasing and that really works. You know, the flow across the frame is always important.
joe cornish (03:20)
Yes, yeah, and the classic storytelling instinct that you just mentioned from your days as a photojournalist, that really, really comes through in the work, I think. And the other thing that occurred to me, and I suppose I've been working on this myself on a current project, is your use of texture and color is really, really outstanding. And these are kind of starting points for possible discussions. I mean, one thing that we as
as Europeans, Brits are very aware of is the color difference between especially the Northern Europe, I would say, Southwestern desert of the US where you live. And the colors are so bright, so powerful, so rich, exciting for us in many ways, but also unfamiliar. They're exotic, whereas for you, guess that they are what you see every day.
Jack Dykinga (04:17)
You know, there's I have a funny story to tell you. I had a I was making a pitch for a new book project up at a press that was l located in Portland, Oregon, which is much like the UK in terms of weather, a lot of rain and a lot of blues. So I I presented my images up there and he said, the color's all wrong.
joe cornish (04:39)
Ha ha.
Jack Dykinga (04:39)
They're too yellow, they're too red. And you know, they were used to a blue-gray palette.
and and fog and subtle things. And it's it in a way, you know, I love that kind of light. And actually I I sort of covet it. But I'm stuck with these bright colors and and high contrasts. So my sp I spent my life trying to mitigate that. And but sometimes, you know, I mean if you look at my at my files, I mean you'll see the saturation sometimes is cranked down quite a bit. Or or the hue of that color is is changed a little bit to kind of
as I said, mitigate, but i i it can be overpowering at times and when the shadows are so deep and dark, it can destroy an image. So
joe cornish (05:24)
Yes.
Jack Dykinga (05:24)
that's why, you know, you early and late is what you know what makes landscape work for me.
joe cornish (05:29)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Tim Parkin (05:30)
You're not you're not afraid
from you're not afraid of photographing in harsh light or direct sunlight either, I don't think.
Jack Dykinga (05:37)
No, I mean I I've I do it. Yeah. It's it's it's not my preferred thing though. you know, it is when when you when you have when you live here, and one of the things that's a real blessing here is that we have basically untrammeled sky. And when the light sweeps across the land, it creates that texture that Joe was talking about. So early and late, you get that really long shadow effect. And with that long shadow becomes a contrast of
blue shadows and yellow
warmer
Tim Parkin (06:08)
Mm.
Jack Dykinga (06:08)
highlights. So it all kind of comes together and it's my brain is just turns on to that. You know, it just it's like automatic now.
joe cornish (06:18)
Yeah, you have to work quickly in those conditions too, I guess. And the other thing is you use twilight really brilliantly. You know, the periods just after the sun has gone down and before it rises. There you go.
Jack Dykinga (06:25)
Uh-huh. Right, right. Cropustular light.
joe cornish (06:32)
That's a good, yeah, it's a long word. You said not to use any long words. But yeah, it's a great word. I've got so many other questions. Just before you come in, Tim, I've got a, you know, Jack's life, seems to me, if you think of the...
of your years as a photojournalist in Chicago. And then these extraordinary decades that you've had working, living in Arizona and working all across the Southwest, having so much work published, unbelievable amounts of large format, and pretty much literally all large format imagery, which most of us could only dream about that level of success and publishing. But your work would really lend itself to a movie.
mean, your life would lend itself to a movie. So if that were to be the case and you had a Christopher Nolan or a Steven Spielberg phone you up and say, Jack, we want to do a life. Who would you recommend to play you?
Jack Dykinga (07:34)
And see who's the most Adonis like person I can think of.
Tim Parkin (07:37)
Ha ha ha.
Jack Dykinga (07:40)
Russell Crowe. Russell Crowe would be good. Yeah, he's
joe cornish (07:42)
there you go. That's interesting. That's really interesting.
You couldn't have said Robert Redford because he's gone, of
Jack Dykinga (07:48)
No.
joe cornish (07:48)
course, but you knew him though, didn't you?
Jack Dykinga (07:51)
I did, yes. Peripherally he wro he wrote the forward to the Stone Canyons and he was very and
joe cornish (07:57)
which is beautiful, a beautiful bit of writing.
Jack Dykinga (08:01)
he was very involved in the preservation of the the Utah Red Rock country, which incidentally the the current administration has just cut dramatically. So
Tim Parkin (08:12)
That bears here is an escalante.
Jack Dykinga (08:14)
yeah. Yeah, so we're not we're not very
joe cornish (08:16)
That is so predictable.
Jack Dykinga (08:18)
happy here.
Tim Parkin (08:19)
Nella look.
Jack Dykinga (08:19)
But we're
gonna stay away from that one because it just a it's a black pit for me.
Tim Parkin (08:22)
Ha ha ha
joe cornish (08:24)
Understood, absolutely.
Tim Parkin (08:26)
I
w I'm interested in
asking you how how you you worked mostly with transparency film when you were photographing with a large format camera, I take it. and
Jack Dykinga (08:34)
Yes, yes. Exclusively.
Tim Parkin (08:37)
and this is impressively limited in its dynamic range. and would d would that push you into working in a certain way in certain conditions? And is that carried on into your digital photography?
Jack Dykinga (08:52)
it's a good foundation, but you know I could say the digital is almost idiot proof. It's it's it's but it's so much easier by comparison. You know, I I with Vell V I used to count on three sobs, maybe four sob latitude. And now you got you know digital with fourteen and up. And I can push that and I can push the ISO to 128,000, you know, it's like unheard of. So you were really
You were forced to be more of a craftsman, I would say, with film. And you know, the limitations made he's like if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. And in in a c
Tim Parkin (09:31)
Yes, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (09:32)
in in that case it did. I mean it I I mean I I was I can give an example. you know, John Shaw, I don't know if you know his name, but he's a he and I co-taught many workshops. In fact, he's the one that talked me into the ham phot ham photo book that you referenced at the beginning.
Tim Parkin (09:46)
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (09:47)
but John and I were we were teaching a workshop.
And we're talking, you know, just making an assumption about opposite colors on a color wheel and we've got these vacant stairs. We're trying to talk about, you know, how you correct for color, you know, differences by adding a complementary or a or a an opposite color on the color wheel. And people just had no reference to that at all. So again, yeah, that goes back to our foundation, you know, how many million million years ago? just
Tim Parkin (10:19)
Absolutely.
Jack Dykinga (10:20)
a basic art concept and and it's not there anymore. They just sort of like, I'll get it I'll fix it in post processing.
Tim Parkin (10:27)
Yeah. How how much of the
Jack Dykinga (10:29)
So where's the world?
Tim Parkin (10:30)
how much of this this ability with digital cameras to allow you to get lots of dynamic range do you actually end up using, do you think? I mean i are the cameras just overpowered or in many ways? Is it still the fact that most
Jack Dykinga (10:43)
Well, yeah
it it's it's just a good question, Tim, because the when I'm shooting wildlife, I embrace everything that the that the fast moving computer in my hands it can do. When I'm shooting landscape, however, I flip it all to manual. I use the flip-up screen like a four by five, look down at it at carefully compose. So everything is manual and everything is
you know, manual focus and everything and so it's you know it's it y it's nice that you have to learn how to just when to say no to to the dig digital technology because it it's raring to go fast. And you're you're and when you're shooting
Tim Parkin (11:25)
Yes. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (11:26)
landscapes, oftentimes you have to wait. And sometimes I'll wait days and I'll go back days after day after day. And so it's it's a totally different mindset. And I sort of alluded to that earlier that
In that downtime now I sometimes will pick up a you know, a wildlife camera, whatever we call it, and and and go shoot wildlife while I'm waiting for the good light for landscape.
Tim Parkin (11:50)
See, I've always I've always thought that one of the biggest challenges of of the digital camera is is in not taking the photograph rather than taking the photograph. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (11:56)
Exactly. I think that's what that's what
I quote that's one of my quotes. It's I
that's the real it's the
Tim Parkin (12:00)
yeah, excellent.
Jack Dykinga (12:01)
it's the discerning you know, quality for a for a good photographer is knowing when not to shoot.
Tim Parkin (12:09)
Forced limitation of film, yeah.
joe cornish (12:09)
I think that is one
of the advantages of having worked with large format is that you do inherently understand that discipline of only having a few exposures in your bag.
Jack Dykinga (12:23)
Right.
joe cornish (12:23)
So often, I certainly remember that most of the time I could never, if I was going out for a day on the hill, the most exposures you would have would be around 14, 14, 15, maybe that many.
at that many, just sort of six or seven film holders. And it's a good discipline, but it's also incredibly limiting when you, there are times when things start to happen, it's wonderful with digital to be able to be free and experiment. So it's just, think,
Jack Dykinga (12:53)
Yeah.
joe cornish (12:55)
use both experiences.
Tim Parkin (12:56)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (12:57)
It's also it's really incredibly nice to look at your results before you leave the field.
joe cornish (13:03)
It sure is. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (13:04)
And you really know you've bagged it, but like you were saying, I used to consider one photo a day a really good day. And one at one time we had a huge snowstorm in the Sonoran Desert. We're creating a fog and all kinds of great colored pastel light in the desert. And I think I shot seventy sheets of film. It was like it was I I was like
Breathless. And now and nowadays, you know, I'm shooting thirty frames a second of a of a fast burden.
Tim Parkin (13:34)
It does come into its own when
when landscape photography becomes more like wildlife photography when those those conditions are changing that that fast. It is it
Jack Dykinga (13:42)
Right, right.
Tim Parkin (13:43)
it's an adrenaline sport, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (13:45)
Well, you but you know like it's like like underwater photography. They used to have to shoot the thirty-six filt in exposures, come up, reload their little Nikonos, and then go back down again. But now they can stay down hours and you're so you're seeing a really breakthrough in the quality and the and the variety of of underwater photography now. So it it's good for some things, but sometimes it turns into a machine gun, you know, and you just have this you just lose the ability to be
You know, more careful on what you're shooting at and composing properly.
joe cornish (14:19)
Yeah, discrimination still counts.
Jack Dykinga (14:22)
It does, it does.
Tim Parkin (14:24)
Got I've got a qu so I'll just quick one on that subject. David Asher, one of our readers, has a has asked on that topic which cameras are you using most frequently? Do you do you have a or or or lenses? Are you a I know. Being being as it's in there.
Jack Dykinga (14:34)
I I was dread I was dreading that question. I know. Well I
have I have a Fuji GFX 100 S and I guess about six or seven lenses spanning from twenty millimeters to two hundred and then I've got Sony's going from 14 millimeters to eight hundred millimeters.
Tim Parkin (15:04)
Is
that for the more of the wildlife side of things, is it? Or or and portability, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (15:07)
Yeah, and and you know, those are they they they
both happen to be you know the best tool for the job. And you know, I I just if you look you compare it to you know, carpentry or something, it's you want the best tool. And so but nobody's gonna ask you, is that a Stanley hammer or a Sears Robux hammer or it doesn't really matter. It's it's the end result that that counts. And those two systems provide the best in each field,
Tim Parkin (15:34)
Mm.
Jack Dykinga (15:34)
in my opinion.
I have you know, John Shaw would r wring my neck saying Nikon, Nikon, but
Tim Parkin (15:40)
Well, wildlife photography's been transformed by that. I help judge the the wildlife photographer of the year still. And the and the the animal eye focus, for instance, is extraordinary. It's changed so much.
Jack Dykinga (15:50)
Right, right. It's it's
it's unbelievable. It really is. And now you can fine tune it as to how long it stays on the subject and it it's you know, it's gone way, way more than y you know, we can even comprehend sometimes. But
Tim Parkin (16:06)
So
joe cornish (16:07)
Tim, speaking of Wildlife Photographer of the Year, in fact, it brings us back to the first time we met Jack, which I think was when you were, I think you were a judge of Wildlife Photographer of the Year and you were also a guest speaker. And I think that, I don't know, was it 2010, 2011? One of those,
Tim Parkin (16:25)
Twenty eleven, yeah.
joe cornish (16:27)
because I remember being invited to go and hear Jack speak at the National Portrait Gallery of all places.
in London,
Jack Dykinga (16:37)
Right.
joe cornish (16:39)
which was a fantastic opportunity because I already knew your work really well. And we met afterwards, a beer in the local ale house. And you said, I probably quote you wrongly here, but see if this rings a bell, nature and landscape photography have never mattered more now that the environment is the issue of our time.
So you were prophetic in a way, because it's only actually increased in its, least, being an issue of our time. But isn't it amazing how, while the environment is, without doubt, fundamental to the future of life on planet Earth for humans, that we still don't spend enough time being concerned about it in the political realm. It just feels like whatever we do is never enough.
Jack Dykinga (17:35)
Well, it it seems though that the population is more concerned with just eking on a living than than connecting with the wild world which really sustains us. And so that disconnect is something that politicians and corporations have exploited. And it's you know, it's hard to be optimistic.
That's changed since the last time we talked to you.
joe cornish (18:00)
It's hard to be,
No, it is hard to be, I didn't really mean it to go in that direction, but it is hard to be optimistic, unfortunately. But we have to be, and I think we have to obviously carry on and adapt to the new world that's facing us. But I still think, I hope that photographers can make a contribution to the debate and to keeping the public informed as well. Because I mean, that's your background as a journalist.
Jack Dykinga (18:29)
Yeah. I I it what worries me though is like as I said that the the the character of the world is is is not the character, but it's it we're sort of focused on survival. And Edward Abbey, the author, once said, you know, it's y when you s when you switch from living to surviving, you know, it's a c it's a catastrophe.
And that's that's I'm gonna I'm getting darker and darker. I shouldn't wear black. But y but
Tim Parkin (18:59)
Hmm. It it it's true, it's when when the
Jack Dykinga (19:02)
you know, but you know, to to to c to give you the counterpoint, when I go out, it's sort of like Christmas every day. I'm out searching for these things like I sent you guys a couple photographs of rainbows and and
joe cornish (19:18)
stones.
Jack Dykinga (19:18)
These surprises
amid, you know, bad situations or or even even a sandstorm to me is really a powerful thing to watch. You know, watching nature. and and wildlife, you know, is is sort of for me, when the sandhill cranes migrate every fall, it's like a shot of adrenaline for me. It's it's knowing that life has found a way and they've been doing it for two point five million years, which is
Tim Parkin (19:46)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (19:47)
In itself, you know, a miracle. You know, we're we're gonna be
joe cornish (19:50)
You know what, that's
actually very optimistic because you realise that
Jack Dykinga (19:53)
It is.
joe cornish (19:54)
these animals have survived extinction events or borderline
Jack Dykinga (19:57)
Right.
joe cornish (19:58)
extinction events with glaciations and interglacials and whatnot. And they've somehow adapted and survived in spite of everything. So that does give you hope.
Tim Parkin (20:08)
I'm I'm interested
Jack Dykinga (20:09)
Well there's a there's
a there's a there's an American that who's a resident in I think I think it's Edinburgh, named Steve Brashadi, who's a paleontologist, who wrote a book on birds being dinosaurs, which they are. And so it's it's it's a good you know, I i in amid all this pessimism, I'm reading about what it could be and what it was. So that sort of sustains me as well. But I think you need you need something to keep the creative juices going.
And for me, like I said, when I see a migration of forty thousand birds flying across the sky, you know, it's hard to be jaded, really. It's like
it's like pure joy.
joe cornish (20:51)
Yeah, absolutely.
Tim Parkin (20:52)
I
I'm
I'm interested in how how the environmental movement and photography relate to conservation because it's it's a it's a conversation we've had on landscape since we since we got going really about what can photography do, what should photography do. We've recently had a big poll of our readers talking about where where they're taking the environmental movement and what we can do with it. And one one of the one of the conclusions from that is peop is
One, the research so shows that beauty works, definitely. But two, with AI and the the preponderance of the icon iconic cliche photographs, things that move people now are more about more personal representations of the landscape and stories about the landscape. And I think what what are your opinions on what might work if you're interested in trying to forward conservation or be a part of it?
Jack Dykinga (21:51)
Well,
you know, I I mean I there's no question that we live in a a a world of me.
Tim Parkin (21:56)
Mm.
Jack Dykinga (21:56)
And and you know, so all this so I mean, I pulled off of Facebook actually when I saw you guys last was there was a speaker at that same conference talking about social media. And following that conference I embraced, you know, Facebook for one for one. And since then, you know, I've
realize that they're hoovering up all these images and taking pieces of them, feeding it into AI and creating new images, which made me completely
Tim Parkin (22:26)
Mm.
Jack Dykinga (22:27)
get off of it. So so that's that aspect of it. But what what bothers me again about that is that it's not it's not reality. And I think you almost got to get your hands dirty and your feet wet and get out in the environment to to to foster a love of the place.
s you know it's it's one thing to give a sense of the place and call it art and all this but it's much better to get yourself dirty and get out there in it sleep under the stars.
Tim Parkin (22:52)
Know what it is. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (22:54)
And I think that's that's it's a critical component. And you know I used to always tell people I I walk around without a camera for a long time before I s you know push the button. And it's still true. And I th I always have this arrogance thinking I'm gonna drive up, roll the window down, hop out.
Take a take a prize winning photo and go home. And it's
Tim Parkin (23:16)
That'd be nice.
Jack Dykinga (23:16)
like and a month later
joe cornish (23:19)
Ha ha.
Jack Dykinga (23:20)
it goes on. So I mean it's it's it's it is a humbling experience. It should be. You know, and and your your your your self-imposed standards of what's good and what's bad should grow every year and get more tight. decide what should be in the frame, what shouldn't be in the frame.
I don't know
joe cornish (23:43)
Absolutely.
Jack Dykinga (23:45)
if you heard that.
Tim Parkin (23:46)
Yeah.
joe cornish (23:48)
Tim you've got more questions too from our readership.
Tim Parkin (23:50)
Yeah, well
one one of the questions is
You
get one of Ian Meads has asked a question about saying he a number of your images taken that he sees are from lesser known locations. and and do you find yourself more creative if you go somewhere th with no familiarity? Or do you prefer to spend a lot of time in one location until it becomes a familiar place, even though it might be relatively unknown?
Jack Dykinga (24:28)
Usually it's usually it's the
it's usually it's the latter. I I spend a lot of time in a place. But sometimes I have to kind of kick myself in the pants and just say, get out and walk around. You know, 'cause it's very easy to sit back, use a long lens and just kind of, you know, wait for the light and things like that. But if you go around and look at what's at your feet, sometimes you can find some amazing things. and
I think being lazy is is something we all have to fight. Being lazy and also shooting cliches. I've done this before I I I've
Tim Parkin (25:01)
That's that's a reflex thing, isn't it? Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (25:03)
done this before, I know it's gonna sell. I can make this and I'll make some money. And and I do that. everybody does that, but because you've gotta put bread on the table. But increasingly I'm looking for something that's not so typical and it doesn't have the rule of thirds or it doesn't have
triangles or you know it's something that's completely different. And but you mentioned a couple of things at the beginning. Texture is really important and it's one of the reasons you shoot large large format is to to really emphasize that quality of texture and the quality of the light. And that's often what draws me to subject matter.
joe cornish (25:43)
I think it is an absolute characteristic. I've been trying to understand this better and it shouldn't be that hard really, but because when we set off on the journey of photography, think it tends to be quite innocent in terms of analyzing all the elements. But if you think about it, we use the word touch very widely and we are touched by things. in an abstract sense, we find them.
emotionally kind of uplifting. But it's the same in a way as the physical experience of touching something. We connect with it when we do that. And to me, the elements, the two elements of photography that represent that emotional connection are texture and color. And they drive that feeling of connection with place. And to go back to what I was saying at the beginning, Jack, that was
is what I see as a kind of constant in your work, whether it's your earlier large format or your more recent contemporary work, it has that feeling all the time. I mean, even the pictures you take with a long lens very often find you very close to the subject. So you're close to your subject physically and emotionally.
Jack Dykinga (27:03)
Well, there's a word you haven't used yet, love. And it's
joe cornish (27:07)
I was,
I promised I wasn't avoiding it. I totally agree. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (27:11)
But love of place has a lot to do with it. a good friend of mine who's a photographer, sculptor in in Mexico, Patricio Robles Gill, once said that he said my photographs allow people to taste the place. I thought that was really brilliant. but it
joe cornish (27:26)
Yes, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (27:28)
but it's it's it's really what we strive for, really, is to you know the you could say the providing a sense of place. But you know, if it if the place in that we're talking about is special, then there's love involved.
joe cornish (27:42)
And I think that love is what keeps you going back and trying to do better as well. Otherwise you could just sort of say, well, that's done. I'm not going to improve on that, move on. No,
Jack Dykinga (27:52)
Never it's never happened yet.
joe cornish (27:54)
exactly. And I think particularly if you're able to work locally, know, mean, actually all three of us in our own different ways have a lot nearby, you know, that's exciting and continues
Jack Dykinga (28:06)
Mm-hmm.
joe cornish (28:07)
to make you want to go out with your camera. I mean, I'm a big believer in practice.
you know, taking time
Jack Dykinga (28:13)
Right, right.
joe cornish (28:13)
to be out there in nature and, know, so that you're familiar with your equipment. You don't have to think too much about that process, but rather the timing and the positioning of the camera and what you include in the frame, what you exclude and so on. So, yeah, I think that that really matters. You're much more likely to do that if you love it.
Jack Dykinga (28:35)
Yeah, well it's it it it it's it also for me involves you know putting yourself in the right place often. not often, all the time. It's basically I have a concept I'm working on or a a story that sets me off in motion. I'm gonna go and I may go out just to check a place. I may make five or six trips in the into the deep desert to watch the progress of plant life growing.
And you know, I know I'm not gonna get anything the first two times maybe. And if I do, it's a nice surprise. But again, you can't just go off and, you know, we we call it a drive by shooting. Roll down
Tim Parkin (29:15)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (29:15)
the window and shoot away and off you go. But it's never that way. And it's it's almost it's almost an axiom that the the more time you put into it the you know, the better the reward. So it's
Tim Parkin (29:28)
Do you when
you're out photographing, do you think some of what you're doing in your head is narrative driven? Or is it a way of just reacting
Jack Dykinga (29:36)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (29:37)
to where you are more more instinctive of intimacy?
Jack Dykinga (29:41)
It's it's both. It's both.
But in the back of my head, Tim, there's always that phone of journalistic beginning, middle and ending.
And it was like drummed into my head. And
Tim Parkin (29:47)
Hmm. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (29:51)
so I'm always thinking about that. But sometimes, you know, you know, a drop dead gorgeous scene and God rays in the sky just makes you suck in your breath and you shoot like crazy. And you just react. And
But you've got to it's sort of that mixture of that planning, getting yourself in the right place. And then when it does happen, you know, hope the your heart palpitations don't make the cut you know, the camera shake.
Tim Parkin (30:20)
And do wr do you write much? Or have you ever felt the need to write as well as photograph?
Jack Dykinga (30:25)
Well, unfortunately,
unfortunately I am. Yeah.
Tim Parkin (30:28)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (30:28)
I think the well the last two books I think were both yeah, actually there's three books now were
Tim Parkin (30:34)
Mm. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (30:35)
written by me. And so one was autobiographical and I just felt like like the last one, the photographer's life. I mean I felt an obligation that since some somebody donated these lungs in my chest to sort of pay back to the medical professionals and and talk about the journey.
So it it's like and that's always an it's it is a still an obligation for me that you know basically I have a gift of life. I was reborn what twelve years ago. So I was I was on the ER, you know, table not gonna make it. And and they gave me these lungs. So it's like it they give you the lungs, but they give you a you know a debt that has to be repaid. It's true.
Tim Parkin (31:18)
Yeah, yeah. And
and you've had three is it three National Geographic features in in the magazine?
Jack Dykinga (31:26)
Yeah, three
and a couple mini features, yeah.
Tim Parkin (31:29)
Yeah. did you ri
Jack Dykinga (31:31)
The last one, it's pretty
interesting you just a asked it because the last one was on birds
Tim Parkin (31:35)
Yes.
Jack Dykinga (31:36)
and burrowing owls. And I I may be, if I'm not mistaken, I may be the oldest contract photographer to shoot a story for them. I think I was eighty
Tim Parkin (31:45)
That's probably on
joe cornish (31:45)
Wow.
Jack Dykinga (31:46)
eighty one or eighty two when I did it, which is in itself kind of a minor miracle. But they I I don't wanna talk about the story because they they did change the narrative. They made the side bar the lead, which I d didn't care much for, but w
Tim Parkin (31:56)
okay. Yeah. Did did
you did you write did you write that as well or was did you do that with somebody else? Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (32:01)
Well, that one. No, no, no. I worked for the Yeah,
yeah.
joe cornish (32:07)
Well, you've worked with a lot of excellent writers as well in the past. mean, clearly working as a journalist in, I mean, even though you were a photographer, you you would spend a lot of time with writers and then in your in the book collaborations that you've done, several great writers there as
Jack Dykinga (32:25)
Right.
joe cornish (32:25)
well. So has that been enjoyable? Has that been an important part of your life?
Jack Dykinga (32:29)
Yeah, it's it's always a love-hate relationship. And we sort of
joe cornish (32:32)
You
Jack Dykinga (32:33)
yeah, especially Chuck Bowden and I we'd always, you know, have this jocular counter punching and punching routine that we'd go through. And sometimes like at one time we were hiking with a park ranger and she thought we're gonna come to blows. We were just kidding. We're just two guys from Chicago just shooting our mouths off. But yeah, I mean it's it it's it's a it's one of those things where it where collaborations are always based on trust.
And it when he proved his worth as far as his visual acumen, I mean he would see things that like a photographer, which was really great. So he's he's the perfect you know, person to collaborate with.
Tim Parkin (33:13)
Have you worked with any
joe cornish (33:13)
That's it.
Tim Parkin (33:14)
other photographers?
Jack Dykinga (33:15)
With other photographers?
Tim Parkin (33:16)
Yeah, on on on projects like that.
Jack Dykinga (33:19)
Well, i the International League of Conservation photographers would send teams of people into certain endangered, threatened areas. So yeah, we'd we'd have for instance you'd have an aerial photographer, an underwater photographer, a landscape photographer, you know, a bird photographer, and we'd all go into some area and just shoot like crazy and and s you know, produce a a set of images to help save the place. And sometimes there's a one one good story is there's a there's a
Club Med going into an area of threatened mangrove swamp in not swamp but shoreline in in Mexico. And traveling with us was a World Journal Tribune correspondent. And we went down to this area and we were photographing like crazy. And the Mexican government, it was a it was a deal where the Mexican government was doing something quasi illegal. Well, it was illegal. It
joe cornish (34:14)
Thank
Jack Dykinga (34:15)
was very illegal.
seizing this and condemning an area and then you you know selling it off to Club Med. So we went down to deck document this and just the presence of of an international correspondent with us somehow it got wind in in in Mexico City and suddenly the whole project went away. So we didn't even have
Tim Parkin (34:37)
wow. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (34:38)
to we didn't have to even take a picture. It was it was is it's just you know it does give you an idea of the power
Tim Parkin (34:44)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (34:44)
you know, we
did the same thing in Patagonia to stop the the damming of the rivers down there for for power. And so, yeah, it's it was it's been very successful and it's great working with talented photographers of like mind. We did you know, I've done one on the border with Mexico that didn't work out so so well. But it's it's an ongoing project.
joe cornish (35:06)
Well, that's actually pretty inspiring, I'd say. And it's really, it's, yeah, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (35:10)
Well it is, yeah. Take the wind
is what I always like to say.
joe cornish (35:15)
It's Yeah, exactly. And I mean, in the Americas, when you think that, you know, human history is somewhat lighter on the ground, even though there's been a lot of damage, you know, you still have magnificent vast wilderness areas, both in the US, Canada, Mexico, and in all of South America. And in Europe, it's those places are very, very few and far between. We don't have anything like
Jack Dykinga (35:39)
No, I know.
joe cornish (35:40)
that in the UK. So it feels as if there's not much left that we can
do in the sense of preserving wilderness or that kind of damage. It's much more a kind of restoration process, I suppose, here, which we can
Jack Dykinga (35:53)
Right.
joe cornish (35:53)
try and focus on. it's actually kind of a very different type of thing. But in the UK, to take our example, there are many post-industrial sites that are now in a state of significant recovery, usually quarries and old mining sites.
You know, it's amazing to see the natural regeneration. But what we don't have is any significant large predators or relatively few large herbivores as well. In fact, they need to produce them. That's
Jack Dykinga (36:26)
I think I'm talking to one, aren't I?
joe cornish (36:29)
it. You too. So we're the only ones left.
As a vegetarian, I'm not doing a very good job of even eating the venison either. Absolutely.
Jack Dykinga (36:39)
You're hell on curates though, I'll bet.
Yeah, it's that's that's a good point. I mean it's rewilding is is going on here as well. But I mean up in Scotland, for instance, the pine trees being replanted and that that's sort of a an amazing project, I think, 'cause you know, rural Britannia sort of made their ships up there, didn't they?
Tim Parkin (37:05)
Yeah.
joe cornish (37:06)
It's a real
mix actually. I think the majority of them probably initially came from England because they were oak. I
Jack Dykinga (37:12)
Yeah.
joe cornish (37:14)
mean, it's thought that one time that England was probably 50 % or more of closed canopy woodland.
Jack Dykinga (37:20)
Mm-hmm.
joe cornish (37:22)
But throughout the medieval period, we were losing trees. They were replanted as well. There was a restoration of, there was oak planting. But then...
There came a point, I guess it was probably during the main era of British colonialism where the distraught or the felling of trees was much faster than the regrowth of them. And yeah, so we ended up with, think, well, after the First World War, was 5 % of the land was had trees on them on it. And yeah, so that's now massively increased, but we're still relatively small. 12, 13 % or so of the land area is forest.
Jack Dykinga (38:03)
Have you seen the the reports coming out of Chernobyl of the wildlife coming back? Pretty amazing. Pretty amazing. Yeah.
joe cornish (38:08)
Yes, yeah, incredible. Pripyat,
Tim Parkin (38:09)
Yeah.
The adapt
the adaptations
joe cornish (38:13)
yeah.
Tim Parkin (38:14)
are incredible as well, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (38:15)
Just keep those hairless apes from going in there, it'll be all sad.
joe cornish (38:17)
It's a... Exactly.
You know what? A few years ago, I actually had a... I was contacted by somebody at a travel company asking if I'd be interested in leading a photographic tour to Chernobyl, to which I responded positively. So I thought it would have been really, really interesting. But anyway, it dried up. But it would be a fascinating place to go and photograph, for sure.
Jack Dykinga (38:42)
Well, you know, there's a geographical photographer named Gerd L Ludwig, who who did the original went in there w you
Tim Parkin (38:48)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (38:49)
know, in a suit went right afterwards. And
joe cornish (38:51)
Right.
Jack Dykinga (38:52)
he's he's a good guy to contact if you're interested. But he's I think he lives in LA now. But certainly not anymore in
joe cornish (38:58)
Right. Well, it's
amazing that the radiation, the background radiation is probably still, you know, above what we would regard as normal safety levels, but the,
Tim Parkin (39:08)
Def definitely.
joe cornish (39:09)
you know, but the animals have, you know, managed to survive, I suppose, because,
Jack Dykinga (39:13)
Right.
joe cornish (39:13)
because there's no humans to bother them. Life is a lot better. Yeah, exactly.
Tim Parkin (39:16)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (39:16)
Yeah, or which is a greater threat, you know, you can always have Yeah.
joe cornish (39:20)
Yeah, maybe.
Tim Parkin (39:21)
I think most animals have
got this genetic store of of things they can adapt to, such like the domestication
Jack Dykinga (39:26)
Right.
Tim Parkin (39:27)
genes, but then experiments in Russia to domesticate foxes and things. And you see how much they can change in th twenty generations.
Jack Dykinga (39:35)
Right, right. The new the new beagle ship tr sailing through the the the the nuked areas, huh?
Tim Parkin (39:43)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (39:44)
Looking for the looking for the finch. But the yeah, what you know in in the US the the plant life, there's one plant in the desert called the creosote bush. And it was like the first plant to come back after the nuclear test sites. It was, you know, decimated. And
Tim Parkin (40:01)
Wow. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (40:03)
and
They are a real survivor and I think that's true in in the in the animal world as well.
Tim Parkin (40:09)
How
many animals
joe cornish (40:09)
Amazing.
Tim Parkin (40:09)
back in the original test sites?
You know. Yeah. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (40:14)
That's a good question. I mean it's it's it was harsh desert, high high high
plain desert. So I'm sure.
joe cornish (40:19)
I was
going to ask actually whether you'd ever been to the original test site to.
Jack Dykinga (40:25)
I haven't actually no. No.
No, it's it's it's not high on my list. I just my list keeps shrinking, you jo. I've
joe cornish (40:33)
So I
Tim Parkin (40:34)
I was fine.
joe cornish (40:36)
was going say, I'm sure all of us will have seen Oppenheimer and many people listening will have done as well. was, from being an amazing film, it just made
Jack Dykinga (40:45)
Right.
joe cornish (40:45)
you, it was a great introduction to the landscape in that part of the world as well.
Tim Parkin (40:50)
I'm not sure if either
Jack Dykinga (40:51)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (40:51)
of you have heard the story about how Kodak found the radioactive pollution originally.
Jack Dykinga (40:58)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (40:59)
They started having problems in production on their lines, fogging of the films.
Jack Dykinga (41:03)
Mm.
Tim Parkin (41:05)
and it turned out it was from the radioactive tests where it had blown across and started fogging
Jack Dykinga (41:09)
Hm.
Tim Parkin (41:10)
some of their very high speed films.
joe cornish (41:12)
Wow.
Jack Dykinga (41:13)
Yeah. Reminds
Tim Parkin (41:14)
All right.
Jack Dykinga (41:15)
me of the days when we were going through the airport security and they would like I was
Tim Parkin (41:18)
yeah.
Jack Dykinga (41:19)
coming back from I think it was New Zealand and they insisted on x-raying my film and I had like you know, that's the difference again between digital and and four by five, but I had all these quick loads and it was like a you know, a a meter square box of
Tim Parkin (41:37)
yeah.
Jack Dykinga (41:38)
film gonna be x-rayed and I fought vociferously and lost.
Tim Parkin (41:43)
So
Jack Dykinga (41:43)
And
I and ultimately there was no nothing I could find on them, but it was still kinda a tense time. So it's so interesting you can hold up a little card now and you have the same
Tim Parkin (41:53)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (41:54)
amount of some same amount of data.
joe cornish (41:54)
Yeah, yeah.
It's hard to argue that that is not a better way of photographing when you have to travel, doing it digitally.
Tim Parkin (42:04)
Definitely.
joe cornish (42:05)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (42:05)
Yeah. I mean and especially transmitting it to to clients in the UK, for instance.
joe cornish (42:10)
Yeah, absolutely.
Tim Parkin (42:10)
Do you do you find it interesting
that photographers are still enamoured of film and and and movies are still f shot on film quite often, like Nolan?
Jack Dykinga (42:20)
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's quaint. You know,
Tim Parkin (42:23)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (42:24)
and I understand that. I mean, I think that they have this need to be like Ansel or whoever d Edward Weston or, you know, I'm just saying American photographers. But yeah, they I mean it's you know it's like watching somebody setting up their eight by ten, or in some cases my s my friend Tillman Crane with his banquet camera. And it's
Tim Parkin (42:43)
yeah. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (42:45)
it's like the biggest game in town, but
You know, even he shoots now with the same Fuji I do. So you realize that for instance, I mean if the the brutal facts are that shooting a d a large format digital with no none of the information is wasted on the space between the pixels. It's just pure information that you can get by with a lot smaller sizing and provide more detail. So it's
Yeah, I mean I I mean I'm trying to think of it. It's about six hundred megabytes I think for file from a from the Fuji. Whereas my scans
Tim Parkin (43:22)
Yeah, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (43:23)
used to be one one point five gigs. yeah, yeah. A tango or what you have? Yeah, yeah.
Tim Parkin (43:26)
Yeah, I've run a drum scanning service over here, so I'm I'm used to those files. Yeah. I've
got three hide I've got well, a tango and two prime scans, which of effectively tangos anyway. Spinning in the shed.
Jack Dykinga (43:37)
did you did you
you know about Bill Atkinson? You heard about him?
Tim Parkin (43:42)
I know yeah, I know the name and I know of him, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (43:44)
He
was l he was ample employee number five. But
Tim Parkin (43:46)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (43:47)
he had a tango in his basement and he was such a perfectionist that he in him had a huge concrete pour platform just so it wouldn't vibrate.
Tim Parkin (43:56)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (43:57)
He was talking about the ultimate obsessive compulsive. It was just a really great story. But anyway.
Tim Parkin (44:03)
Is he still
is is he still around?
Jack Dykinga (44:05)
No, he died. but he early on when digital was coming in, he took he had a list of photographers and I was one on the list, invited him to s Santa Cruz and taught us digital. And yeah
Tim Parkin (44:18)
Mm, yeah. I remember yeah, reading about that.
Jack Dykinga (44:22)
yeah, it was kind of
joe cornish (44:22)
I think that would have
included Charlie Kramer and Jeff Shewey.
Jack Dykinga (44:25)
Yeah, well Charlie was his yeah basically his assistant
at the time and but Franz Lanting, John Shaw, I think David Minch, myself,
joe cornish (44:32)
Yeah. Yes.
Jack Dykinga (44:34)
Pat O'Hara, or some of the people who were there. But they were they're individually, not not collectively.
joe cornish (44:41)
Right, yeah, that's amazing. It's like a list of who's who in photography, in nature photography. But I mean, I'm still occasionally in touch with Charlie, which is really nice. But yeah, I was hoping to see him fairly soon, but it's, yeah, we're struggling to get motivated to come to the US just at the moment, which is sad to say.
Jack Dykinga (45:01)
Why would that be? Why would that be?
Tim Parkin (45:06)
I
mean
I I'm interested in your your opinions on the best ways of disseminating photography as a photographer. You've worked from a point when
Jack Dykinga (45:15)
Mm.
Tim Parkin (45:16)
there was a lot of news places and magazines and then books were
Jack Dykinga (45:19)
Yeah, yeah.
Tim Parkin (45:20)
people wanted you to make books and would pay you for it, unheard of.
Jack Dykinga (45:23)
Right, right.
Tim Parkin (45:24)
and obviously you've had exhibitions and now everything goes to social media, you've tried tried that. Do you do you have any thoughts on on the best way of getting your work out there and what's what
What what can you do
Jack Dykinga (45:37)
Wow.
Tim Parkin (45:37)
to share your work better with the right with the right people, let's say?
Jack Dykinga (45:40)
Well, I mean, social
media is seems to be the way to do it these days. The trouble is that it's it's almost like a public domain. So it's it's it's fraught with difficulties in the as far as the future goes. I live in Ariz
Tim Parkin (45:53)
You lose control, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (45:55)
I live in Arizona, which if you have obviously you know that, but we have we're blessed with a magazine called Arizona Highways. And it's always been the highest quality and it shoots landscape or it features landscape. they feature wildlife occasionally.
paintings. But as being a contributor to them for many, many years now, since eighty one, it's give it's given me an outlet. that plus in the Nature Photo Library in in in the UK affords me an entrance to the European market, which is good. And and of course I know Helen Jilkes has always been a friend of mine. She's visited here and gone hiking with me in the desert. So
there's a there's a deep connection in that regard, which I value. And but sh nowadays if I was a young photographer, I mean it's a the problem is I'm giving you the negatives and the positives here, but anybody can hang up a shingle and say, I'm a photographer, I'm a professional. And the second line says an award-winning photographer.
Tim Parkin (47:02)
Yes.
Jack Dykinga (47:02)
They're they're light on details, and so they're always, always an award.
Winning photographer featuring their work. So that's good. The nice thing about publications was it was a way to certify. It's like it was like a hurdle. You had to clear, you had to get by some sometimes really, really tough editors, the geographic being one of the toughest. You had to almost sell your story idea, not almost, you sold your story idea to like 18 editors.
And then you had you had you did a shoot, you know, and halfway at it again once you sell it. And you gotta go through that process all over again. So you better you better have the goods, is a bit what I'm saying. And nowadays I look at people's, you know, this pages and portfolios, and they look great. There's a whole you know, long list of colorful thumbnails. And I just always envision what a 40 by 50 inch print's gonna look like.
Tim Parkin (48:04)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (48:05)
And it's and that's gone. And and you know, maybe it's gone forever, but then again, we also have in Tucson the Center for Creative Photography, which is accepted in my archive. And it's an ongoing thing. And the archivist is was just over at the house a couple days ago, trying to figure out my my unique system of Lightroom catalogs. And
Tim Parkin (48:29)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (48:30)
so but it's but they do have all my color transparencies now.
in house. So I've got a it's a big load off my back is as you know
joe cornish (48:38)
That's fantastic.
Tim Parkin (48:39)
Yeah, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (48:40)
the hourg hourglass is going in one direction.
joe cornish (48:43)
That's fantastic news, Jack, because that's the... I mean, I think any of us of a certain age who have an archive, I have 10 filing cabinets full of five by four transparencies. And
Jack Dykinga (48:56)
Right. Wow.
joe cornish (48:57)
I'm a little bit younger than you, so I'm still sort of working, but I'm not shooting anymore five, four in a hurry. And I'm actually, I have been thinking exactly, well, what do you do? mean, my kids aren't gonna wanna keep them.
when I've gone, are they only used to anyone? And it really is, it's great that, you know, valuable collection like yours has been hopefully stored for all time, or at least for foreseeable future in a way that means that it'll last and will be there for future generations. So it's great news.
Jack Dykinga (49:29)
Wa one of the things though
Tim Parkin (49:30)
Could I could I ask?
Jack Dykinga (49:30)
that th that paid off for me is again my newspaper background. I was also a photo editor. So I'm ruthless as an editor in my own stuff. So I mean it's like my file I think had probably as many as a hundred thousand four by five chrom four by five chromes, five by four in your in your vernacular. But I edit it down to like three thousand.
I took vast quantities of of film and then it shredded and which was hard to do, but I it was a careful it was a careful edit and I so I feel good about it.
Tim Parkin (50:09)
It's the it's good choice. Then
let somebody else edit your work. That's the goal there, isn't it?
Jack Dykinga (50:13)
Well, I
mean my w my wife didn't like these ca these fireproof filing cabinets all over the house. Well let's get real here. Again, you know, the digital that's a wonderful thing. You know, just a little a little hard drive's got thirty terabytes on it now.
Tim Parkin (50:29)
Hm. Quick question about your book output. I mean you've you've had quite a few books over the over the years. Is whi which one would you point somebody at if you were pointing pointing a a person to find out more about your photography? and which ones have you do you think are your most successful?
Jack Dykinga (50:46)
I still like the first one, The Sonorian Desert, which was published by Harry Abrams. it it had the best quality as far as reproduction, and I worked on it the longest. And the last one was a photographer's life, which is deeply personal. So those two I think would be like good book ends, the beginning and ending.
Tim Parkin (51:06)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (51:07)
you know, I've always I've had another book in mind, you know, my second life after the transplant.
And I just I'm I'm way too lazy to do it. I'm I'm
Tim Parkin (51:18)
Ha ha.
Jack Dykinga (51:19)
I'm trying to I'm trying to get energy enough to go down into Tucson, which is about a twenty minute drive,
Tim Parkin (51:27)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (51:27)
to go sign a a 30 by 40 inch print of one of my latest shots that I want to donate to the hospital that that did my transplant. So but I motivation's tough.
Tim Parkin (51:40)
Yeah. He'd rather be photographing than do another book.
Jack Dykinga (51:44)
Well
That's true. I mean it's i i it it is time consuming and if you you can do it half ha half half hazardly. I was gonna say half assed, but I can't say that, can I?
joe cornish (51:56)
You
Tim Parkin (51:56)
Huh.
Say what do like?
Jack Dykinga (51:59)
Yeah. I don't know what your s restrictions are in terms of podcasting, but anyway it's time is of the essence.
Tim Parkin (52:06)
I've
I've got a couple of questions from readers again. Andrew Griffiths has asked, Do you see yourself as a passive witness to the world? Or do you see yourself as an active storyteller within it? And we've covered a little bit of that, but
Jack Dykinga (52:22)
No, I don't I think I'm passive to a point. How's that? And then and
Tim Parkin (52:27)
Yeah. yeah.
Jack Dykinga (52:28)
then and but you know, you again you if if your blood doesn't boil at some of this stuff and you don't have passion,
Tim Parkin (52:35)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (52:38)
what what Charles Bowden and I used to work out was we had a a way of presenting images that were beautiful, that's kind of like the hook to draw you in, and then this text would be searing.
Tim Parkin (52:52)
Yes. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (52:52)
About what's
really going on. And it's a great way to present things. And not I think if you just shoot pictures of devastation, people just turn off. So
Tim Parkin (53:02)
There's a there's
a f a British photographer called Simon Norfolk, who
Jack Dykinga (53:07)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (53:07)
who creates some beautiful images. It's a landscape photographer, but they're quite quite challenging subjects. And he says he he famously said, Beauty is a tool. I'll use it
Jack Dykinga (53:18)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (53:19)
as long as it works.
Jack Dykinga (53:20)
Right, exactly. Yeah, I mean it's
joe cornish (53:23)
Yeah,
there are aftermath images of usually war zones. And
Jack Dykinga (53:29)
Right.
joe cornish (53:29)
they are, they're beautifully composed and seen. yeah, there is in fact a sort of reverence in them, fact, again, but he's a brilliant photographer, but it is a, it's interesting the way he describes it, because I would have thought, as he's trying to be in a way very analytical about it, but that's how you would want to work as a photographer.
If you're making pictures that are ugly, where's the joy in that? mean, Edward Burtynsky's work,
Jack Dykinga (53:58)
I was just I was gonna mention there, yeah.
joe cornish (54:01)
they're incredibly beautiful pictures. mean, what they're showing us very largely are devastated landscapes, have been, from which...
Jack Dykinga (54:09)
Or man or man
or man improved landscapes. Supposedly. I improved do you know
joe cornish (54:12)
yeah, exactly. Yeah, whichever. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (54:15)
more d Daniel Beltra's work about? His his book
joe cornish (54:17)
Yes, yeah, absolutely. I know Daniel.
Tim Parkin (54:18)
Yes.
Jack Dykinga (54:20)
on the on the oil spill was phenomenal. I mean it there were the incredibly
joe cornish (54:22)
Fantastic.
Jack Dykinga (54:23)
beautiful images of devastation.
joe cornish (54:26)
So the year
after you judged wildlife photographer of the year, Jack, I was on the judging panel and Daniel won that year with one of his oil covered penguins.
Jack Dykinga (54:39)
Right. I was there.
I was there. I I I leaped out of my seat and his brother and I
Tim Parkin (54:41)
Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (54:45)
were like screaming and hollering, Yeah, yeah, Daniel's a great fan.
joe cornish (54:46)
Fantastic. Yeah.
Tim Parkin (54:48)
That that was of almost v
vermeer like birds, oil covered birds against the sackcloth, wasn't it? That was just an amazing picture.
joe cornish (54:54)
It was and the
Jack Dykinga (54:54)
Right, right.
joe cornish (54:55)
light was just stunning. But it
Jack Dykinga (54:57)
Yeah, yeah.
joe cornish (54:58)
was a brilliant synthesis of beauty and horror in a way summed up.
Jack Dykinga (55:01)
Yeah, exactly. That's the
same statement. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm glad I I I remember that one well. That that was sitting under the tail of Diplo.
Tim Parkin (55:13)
Yeah. It's it's it's a great competition. Yeah. It's a whale now, I think. They've got the blue whale sitting above. W I'm going down to the I think Dippy was great. Interestingly they
Jack Dykinga (55:14)
Or was it the head? I can't remember w I can't remember it's the head or the tail. Anyway. Yeah, yeah. Bring Dippy back. Get Dippy back. Yeah.
joe cornish (55:21)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (55:25)
cast they cast Dippy in bronze and put him in the garden. He should be there now. So the kids
Jack Dykinga (55:29)
huh. Huh.
Tim Parkin (55:31)
play on him now.
joe cornish (55:32)
Yes, because as you say Tim, it's now a whale, it's a blue whale, it? Yeah, it's just phenomenal, fills the entire
Jack Dykinga (55:37)
Yeah, yeah.
joe cornish (55:38)
ceiling area. Incredible.
Jack Dykinga (55:40)
Yeah,
well that's again, you know, Patricio and I basically photographed them down in the Sea of Cortez and that was it's quite a rush to be up on a high bridge and seeing this blue shape going under your boat.
You realize
joe cornish (55:55)
Incredible, yeah.
Tim Parkin (55:55)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (55:56)
how small you are.
joe cornish (55:57)
Yeah. boy, it's... photographing whales is so frustrating if you can't get in the water with them though. They are so difficult, so elusive. I've had lots of encounters, but you that sounds like a really good solution, being on a bridge, being able look down.
Jack Dykinga (56:12)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Tim Parkin (56:17)
I've got a a a couple a couple
joe cornish (56:17)
But yes, sorry, Tim.
Tim Parkin (56:19)
more questions from readers. a quick one for you. I mean y you've already answered this in a way, but Paul Hetzel asks you
Jack Dykinga (56:24)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (56:26)
about the way processing software worked over the years and people used to use Photoshop and lab mode. and I think a lot of people moved to Lightroom. Would would you say you do most of your work in Lightroom for editing?
Jack Dykinga (56:41)
I have a a workflow that starts off with Lightroom. And depending on the noise level, usually the noise level is non existent in in in landscape work. But in you know as I said in in the in bird photography it can be way, way the heck up there.
Tim Parkin (57:01)
Mm-hmm.
Jack Dykinga (57:01)
So I can but we start off in Lightroom and apply noise if reduction if I need it in Lightroom. I would say up to about
2000 ISO. If it's beyond that, then I go to where's the
joe cornish (57:19)
So pass.
Jack Dykinga (57:19)
time?
Tim Parkin (57:22)
Not the topaz one, let's see it.
Jack Dykinga (57:24)
Not to Topaz, not so much. D noise.
Tim Parkin (57:28)
yeah, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (57:28)
Is denoise is one I'm sorry, that's not what I'm using. DXO, sorry.
Tim Parkin (57:33)
Yeah, yeah, okay.
joe cornish (57:34)
Thank
you.
Jack Dykinga (57:35)
So DX06 is seems to be the one that I'm using a lot lately. But but that I will do layers and masking, kind of cursory masking, and
Tim Parkin (57:47)
In Photoshop.
Jack Dykinga (57:48)
applying texture selectively in Lightroom.
Tim Parkin (57:52)
In the light room, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (57:53)
Yeah, then I will save that, import it into Photoshop, and do the serious masking there. Or in
Tim Parkin (58:00)
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (58:01)
in Lightroom, in Photoshop, I will
Brush the edges so I don't have any haloing and things like that. So it's much more exacting.
Tim Parkin (58:09)
So it's about accurate masking mostly that then, yeah.
Jack Dykinga (58:12)
well, I think so, yeah. And
Tim Parkin (58:13)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (58:14)
and more, I'll I'll apply more care color. like one of the things I I end up doing is, you know, cooling shadows and warming highlights and things like that in Lightroom or in Photoshop. So, but that's it's all done, you know, the picture dictates what we're gonna do with it.
sometimes, you know, the ideal is it's right out of the can, it's ready to go. And you know, the least work on it possible is is a good good day. Yeah.
Tim Parkin (58:41)
Yeah. Yeah, we've had that conversation, haven't we, Jo? Yeah. If if you
joe cornish (58:44)
yes, many
times.
Tim Parkin (58:44)
if you can get a if
you can get a picture and do it with about three sliders, then you've done a good job of capturing something.
joe cornish (58:48)
would be good, but I'm very
reassured by what Jack just said because it's almost identical to what I had.
Jack Dykinga (58:54)
Well again,
like I s like you asked before, do you go back to a place? Well I go back to that file, and I'm doing that a lot with my downtime during the monsoon season here. I will go back to a file, reprocessing it from the get-go, and then slap today's data on the final output. So that they'll you know, this I'm basically doing that for the archive. So they can see, you know, like we were saying, how many pictures are in your file, there may be 10 versions of w the one of the more popular images.
Tim Parkin (59:24)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (59:24)
At
least yeah. If
Tim Parkin (59:26)
That's normally
that's normally got the dash final. Dash dash final. No, this is really the final one.
Jack Dykinga (59:29)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
joe cornish (59:31)
You
Jack Dykinga (59:32)
Almost final. A B C five stars.
Tim Parkin (59:35)
Yeah, that's the one.
Jack Dykinga (59:36)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's but but that but it should be a moving target. You should be learning and and getting better at what you do.
joe cornish (59:44)
You're always learning. Yeah.
Tim Parkin (59:46)
And and a two well, one comment from a guy called Ed Ed Hannan, who's a friend of ours, who's who said thank you very much for your large fan of large format photography book, that one, because it taught him to take pictures and how to use his camera.
Jack Dykinga (59:59)
Mm.
Tim Parkin (1:00:01)
And we've got a a comment from Kai Thompson, which is short and sweet, what to you is a successful photograph?
Jack Dykinga (1:00:09)
What? Say again.
Tim Parkin (1:00:10)
What to
you is a successful photograph?
Jack Dykinga (1:00:14)
Mm.
Tim Parkin (1:00:15)
A quick one for the end.
Jack Dykinga (1:00:18)
Quick one, huh? Yeah. Well, I my process at looking at the final photograph, being on the screen in the camera or in the field, is is my eye wanders around the corners. And I tend to look at first of all compositionally the quantities in the direction the eye flows within the in the photograph.
You know, a guy I used to teach was used to always talk about a teeter totter with an eight hundred pound gorilla on one side and a little kid on the other.
Tim Parkin (1:00:52)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (1:00:52)
And so you have a have a balance within the photograph. And then you employ the diagonals in the f in that frame. All these things in terms of composition are important. But then you had light and texture as as Joe talked about. And that's almost like the icing on the cake. But I always start
Another quote from a friend of mine, Jay Dessard, with you're imposing your window. I love that expression, you're imposing
Tim Parkin (1:01:23)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (1:01:23)
your window on the on the landscape. And you see people walking around like this, you know, things like that. But in in a sense, it's it's in a very real sense, that's what you're doing. You're deciding what's in and what's out. And so that's where the success of an image begins is you know the the the statement of what if? What if I do this, what if I do that, what if I cut out that.
Tim Parkin (1:01:46)
Well that's great. Thank you very much, Jack. Yeah,
Jack Dykinga (1:01:47)
And then and then you go back and then you go back five more times.
Tim Parkin (1:01:51)
keep trying. Have you got any more questions, Jo? Would you like to?
joe cornish (1:01:55)
No, not at the moment. I'm sure I'm going to think of many more after we've finished, it was just absolute joy to listen to Jack's stories and hear your ideas and experiences. So thank you so much.
Jack Dykinga (1:02:08)
Well it's good to be quizzed by these two children. Two two y two youngsters.
joe cornish (1:02:12)
That's made my day.
Tim Parkin (1:02:12)
Thank you.
Jack Dykinga (1:02:14)
Boy, you look you good both look great. No kidding. I I would I would dearly love to go back to the UK, but it's unfortunately I I quit flying after the of after the surgery. So I tried to walk
Tim Parkin (1:02:26)
I can understand that. Yeah.
joe cornish (1:02:28)
We'll need to come back.
Jack Dykinga (1:02:29)
to the UK, it didn't work out.
Tim Parkin (1:02:32)
We'll come over sometime. Give it another what is it? Another three or four years, I can't remember.
joe cornish (1:02:36)
two and a half.
Jack Dykinga (1:02:37)
Well good lu
good luck at is today
Tim Parkin (1:02:38)
No.
Jack Dykinga (1:02:38)
the day for the game? I guess.
joe cornish (1:02:40)
Yeah,
tomorrow, tomorrow, yep. Thank you.
Tim Parkin (1:02:42)
Tomorrow. Yeah. W
Jack Dykinga (1:02:43)
Tomorrow's day, okay.
Tim Parkin (1:02:44)
it's a it's a it's a
Jack Dykinga (1:02:45)
Or today is today is Spain and France, right?
Tim Parkin (1:02:47)
yeah. I Argentina England should
joe cornish (1:02:48)
Yeah, I think so.
Jack Dykinga (1:02:50)
Who's gonna win?
Tim Parkin (1:02:51)
be a good grudge grudge match, shouldn't it?
Jack Dykinga (1:02:53)
Who's gonna win?
Tim Parkin (1:02:55)
well I think we'll win this one, given it's Argentina.
joe cornish (1:02:57)
But
I think France are going to win tonight. Anyway, I will say that.
Tim Parkin (1:03:01)
yeah,
yeah.
Jack Dykinga (1:03:02)
You think Argentina's gonna win?
Tim Parkin (1:03:04)
No, I think I think England will win. Bec
Jack Dykinga (1:03:06)
Okay.
Tim Parkin (1:03:07)
just because just because they can't let Argentina win.
Jack Dykinga (1:03:11)
Well Bellingham is playing very well. I mean Harry
joe cornish (1:03:15)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (1:03:16)
Harry is not so, you know, much present as he is Bellingham right now, but anyway. I I I like
joe cornish (1:03:21)
No, Belly, Belly has been...
Tim Parkin (1:03:21)
Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (1:03:22)
the Norwegian style of play. I mean I I I I
Tim Parkin (1:03:25)
Yes. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (1:03:26)
I wanna wear one of those horned helmets, you know. Yeah,
joe cornish (1:03:29)
The rowing thing is fantastic.
Jack Dykinga (1:03:31)
that's that's nearly Scotland, isn't it? I remember
joe cornish (1:03:33)
Hahaha
Jack Dykinga (1:03:35)
seeing all those
Tim Parkin (1:03:35)
Yeah, part of our
part of Scotland wants to secede to Norway anyway. Orkney and Shetland have
Jack Dykinga (1:03:41)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (1:03:41)
been have been trying to do it for a long time. Thank you very much, anyway. Yeah.
Jack Dykinga (1:03:44)
I remember climbing those hill.
I remember climbing the hills and you say, What if there would be a tower up there? And sure enough there would be a tower. You could imagine some big Viking ship coming down the fjord. But it's like, god. Anyway.
joe cornish (1:03:57)
You
Tim Parkin (1:03:58)
Will will you come back for another
in will you come back for another chat maybe in a in a in a while? Yeah, we'll give you a shout. That's great.
Jack Dykinga (1:04:02)
Sure. In a bit. It's
been really great though, you guys. Thank you so much. And th thanks to your wife.
Tim Parkin (1:04:08)
Thank you.
joe cornish (1:04:08)
Thanks, Jack.
