Joe Rainbow
Tim Parkin (00:02.712)
Hello and welcome to, what, say it's live streaming? I don't want it to live stream, what you doing?
Do you lives? I'm not live-interested in anybody anyway. Sorry. Hello and welcome to All Landscapes. What?
Mark LJ (00:13.35)
Life to us? Is life to us?
Tim Parkin (00:17.228)
Well, yeah, it'll be all right. It's all good. Hello and welcome to OnLinescape. I'm here with Joe Rainbow and our host, Littlejohn. And our idea is to waffle for a full hour, an hour of waffle. Can you cope with that, Joe? I know Mark can.
Joe (00:35.652)
We'll see. My eyes are heavy already.
Mark LJ (00:37.31)
You doddle.
Tim Parkin (00:42.018)
So how have you been doing? I think on landscape, we talked to you nearly 10 years ago in a featured photographer interview.
Joe (00:50.23)
Yes, a little while back I remember in an early episode having Joe review one of my pictures from the coast here way back.
Tim Parkin (00:59.726)
That's right. Yeah, one with the, I can't remember what it's called now, the spiky rock in the middle of the water flowing around it. Yeah.
Joe (01:05.121)
Yeah, down at Gwamwallow. Yeah, I think I did an end frame as well, didn't I, with a Peter Dombrowskis image some time ago. I don't remember when.
Tim Parkin (01:17.806)
quality work. I'm intrigued because it's been quite a while since then, so what have you been up to?
Joe (01:24.546)
What have I been up to? Photographically not as much as I'd like. I think life's got kind of busy and parenthood has got busy and work's got busy. So I've restricted my photography pretty locally. But yeah, just really making little short trips out. Not in the car so much, not tripod so much.
Tim Parkin (01:27.063)
Photography wise.
Hmm.
Joe (01:54.18)
and just walking from the house, I live in a, in a nice, spot anyway, by the coast. I've got Riversie, the side of the house and lovely old woodland and the creeks and so on. So I've been, I've been, I've been walking, rambling with no fixed plan and it's been quite, quite lovely actually.
Tim Parkin (02:16.654)
It's a nice way to work.
Mark LJ (02:16.67)
I know you say they've been restricted to staying local but it doesn't sound like you're restricted at all.
Joe (02:23.51)
No, I meant that more. Yeah, I think it's quite a good thing, There's a nice, there's a real variety of landscapes near where I am on my doorstep and I'm just really fortunate to be able to walk five minutes down the road and I'm at a, it's almost like it looks like a wildlife sanctuary. Well, there is the seal sanctuary nearby, but it's full of egrets, it's cornish.
Mark LJ (02:28.466)
Yeah.
Joe (02:51.754)
oak trees like sessile oaks that are next to the river. You've got the estuary so it's tidal coming in and out. You've got both Halford River which is more famous than Caen which is on the other side, St Anthony on the headland. So there's this lovely ecosystem there of all sorts of wildlife, all sorts of photographic opportunities. So yeah I've had to I suppose adapt and
really look at my local landscape more thoroughly.
Mark LJ (03:24.67)
It'll be fascinating though as the seasons change it'll be wonderful to see it go through the course of the year.
Joe (03:29.476)
Absolutely not. And even I think the whole nature of the kind of photography I do where I'm doing a lot more intimate landscapes these days, I think, and I've not given up on a wider view, but I just find it more interesting, I guess. And I think in Cornwall, the bigger views have been done sort of to death. So I've quite enjoyed just making it my own, I guess.
So that's really what I've been up to is wandering. I've taken to wearing a, I've got a little tiny, one of those high-play tripods with a case that I've just wear on my back. So I normally have that and then my camera with one lens, normally a tilt lens and sort of for versatility really, for depth of field. And that's it. And then I'll just walk off.
Tim Parkin (04:18.111)
Okay.
Joe (04:27.84)
really with no particular plan, although that the river system there has become something of late, a project if you like, where I've begun thinking of how that could escalate into something more meaningful, possibly actually including portraits and the people that work the river. Had a really nice chat with someone down there the other day, just coincidentally got one of the classics, what are you photographing, came kind of echoing across the river. And I said,
seaweed and seaweed and leaves and the chap said you know okay you know it wasn't wildlife and we got we got chatting about the river and i said what are you up to and he was digging worms and he said only three of us have got a license and it led to sort of a bigger conversation about the fishing and he offered he said you have access to the water and i said i don't i don't have a boat or anything
And he said, when he's back, he'll take me out on the boat and we can actually explore the river and he'll tell me more about what he gets up to. So I suddenly thought, do you know what, this would be a really interesting project mixing the local population, the history of all the oyster farming there. And then the sort of just the photographic interest with the trees, the leaves, the whole ecosystem there is just interesting.
Mark LJ (05:36.956)
Yeah, definitely.
Joe (05:53.144)
So yes, that's what I've been up to is really very local, really intimate stuff. The odd trip out, my son does gymnastics, so I often travel a fair bit for him and I'm up at some competition with four, five hours to kill. So I was up at Saunton Sands in Devon the other day on the North Coast in driving rain and wind and loving it.
So that was beautiful. Big vistas, big beach. Really beautiful.
Tim Parkin (06:25.132)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (06:31.441)
Yeah, I like the picture you've got, because I think the picture you've taken is silvery grey. Two people, two figures right in the middle of a spotlight.
Tim Parkin (06:31.618)
Do think you rest?
Joe (06:39.556)
Yeah, that was Saunton. I've got a whole load of them. Mark, I got a parking ticket as well that I wasn't happy about in the hotel. I beat them down. I peeled. Yeah, that was magnificent. Incredible light. I've got some of a, it's not really my normal fare, but I had someone was kite surfing on their own with like huge beams of light as the rain came through that.
Mark LJ (06:47.453)
Oops.
Tim Parkin (07:07.63)
Thanks.
Mark LJ (07:08.263)
Yeah.
Joe (07:09.216)
And it's very publishable, I guess. there's, yeah, I got a lot of really minimal, beautiful compositions and so on.
Mark LJ (07:18.983)
Yeah, I can identify with that. After so many years living in the lakes and now living 150 hours from the beach, it's amazing how many beautiful pictures you can take of absolutely nothing. Just looking out to sea, it's fabulous. It's really quite enjoyable taking things that you wouldn't expect to take.
Joe (07:42.596)
I like reacting to situations, I think. I like that, the frame of mind that you have to get in to do that and not having preconceived ideas, not looking for a specific shot, just literally being an open book, turning up to a scene. And that's kind of why I like the tilt lens so I get a depth of field if I need it, particularly on the medium format, well, near medium format Fuji system.
Mark LJ (07:59.676)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (08:13.208)
So what lens is it? You don't mind me asking.
Joe (08:14.964)
So I kept my old Canon tilts from when I was Canon-ed for many years and I kept my 24, my 45 and my 90. So the 45 and 90 are like the mark one versions but they adapt absolutely perfectly. I never have any vignetting issues. And with manual kicked in,
Tim Parkin (08:31.107)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (08:35.374)
Wow, okay, cool.
Joe (08:41.476)
on a 45, so it's about a 36 mil equivalent, I think, on the GFX. So you're kind of at a standard frame. And with manual focusing and focus peaking, know, you get used to it, don't you? Of a degree or two tilt and F11 and you're pretty much there. And then you can just tweak that live. You know, it's so straightforward these days. So...
That's that normally I'll get in the ballpark. If I've got a bit of light, I'll hand hold and then if I need it, I've got the little tripod. This is if I'm just walking down the road and I can set up.
Tim Parkin (09:21.55)
I'm glad you said you your hand hold it because I've started doing that with a tilt lens and it's perfectly fine, isn't it?
Joe (09:27.31)
There's nothing, mean, I think the foreground's probably more your issue. You you get that thinner, that thinner wedge at the front of your frame. So it's good to get that bang on. And I have regretted not having the tripod previously. So I did that whole little series, mini series on all the leaves in the seaweed. did a whole, you know, I got a bit obsessed with them, particularly the autumn and how they, how they changed, which trees were dropping, which leaves, how the tide would like, swell them into.
into patterns and shapes. Yeah, so that one of those went in in the book and I must have shot, don't know, I've had about 50 or so good, fairly good contenders. So they, shot quite a few of them handheld but I was kind of down to f8 and when you get that close, what I love with the the tilt lens was you can get
Tim Parkin (10:00.214)
Is that one of the ones from the Natural Landscape Awards book?
Joe (10:25.476)
that much closer than most of my native GF lenses. you're probably down to about 25 centimeters with a 35 mil effectively. But at f8, that close, you're kind of missing out a fair bit of detail. So you're just skimming the top surface of everything. Whereas f11, f16,
on a tripod with tilt, I was getting the whole lot in a single shot. And I really don't like stitching a hundred megapixel files particularly, you know, stacking them. So I was just trying to avoid that whole issue, just get it in one shot. yeah, just loving the walk, the way down there, the looking.
Mark LJ (10:56.156)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (11:01.085)
Thank
Tim Parkin (11:16.546)
I'm interested that you don't mind. I think a lot of us start landscape photography and we think everything should be wild landscape and no buildings and no people. But as you start working in a local area, you start building relationships of things, things and people in the area.
Joe (11:25.529)
Mm.
Joe (11:32.868)
Absolutely. Yes, and they are, they are part of the landscape. In a funny way, yeah, I agree. That's a sort of, I think it's just a maturity thing, isn't it? That I think my whole thought process about what the landscape is now has changed quite dramatically. I'm also, I just don't chase things.
Mark LJ (12:02.919)
Cheers.
Joe (12:02.978)
I think in the old days you used to run around like a headless chicken and colors and sunrises and sunsets. And I've just been walking, you know, the weather now, I've sort of been philosophizing on this. How do you approach British, particularly Cornish weather for the last six months is gray, it is drizzly and trying to make enigmatic photos. I think it forces you to look more in front of you.
Tim Parkin (12:20.835)
Yeah.
Joe (12:29.728)
And there's all the colour there, there's all the shape, the texture, so from an artistic point of view I still see it as a... I like that game of fitting anything really into a frame. So that still appeals and I have no pressure on what I do, it's just... I've relieved that, I'm not trying to sell work particularly, I'm not forcing anything, I'm just out trying to keep it as pure an art form as possible I guess.
Mark LJ (12:58.3)
Do you think it's a more pure art form? You you're talking about intimate scenes, photographing locally. It allows more of your inner self as opposed to come through in your pictures.
Joe (13:10.166)
Absolutely, Mark. And I grew up here. I grew up on a farm near the river. know, our farmland went down to Pearl Weaverall Creek, which is a beautiful, know, really untouched river not that far from here. In fact, the Helford River links up to it. So I'm kind of looking at what I used to look at in my old view. I'm down at the end of that view, looking back to where I grew up. And that kind of memory for me, I'm really home, you know, the
nature of the oak trees. Nothing changes, Mark. Everything, all the oak that falls in the river stays there for 30 years, 40 years. So it was Oliver Rackham actually, is a tree specialist in the UK. And he did a particular survey of all the sessile oats around the Hellford. And he took, he literally said, I found my same tripod holes 25 years apart and had
the view every single oak tree was exactly how it was 25 years ago. Even the ones that had fallen were still in the river sticking out in the same shape. And it's only the beech trees, you know, the birch that had rotted and moved on. he said there's this sort of timelessness about that. So for me, this environment I'm living in now and have access to now is, is my childhood effectively, it feels like it. So I have that
Mark LJ (14:15.366)
Yeah.
Joe (14:38.38)
Yeah, an affinity with that, I guess.
Mark LJ (14:44.112)
I think it's really nice as a photographer to do that. mean, you see so many people and it's a picture from the Faroe Islands and the next week it's a picture from Iceland and the next week it's a picture. And I don't see what the connection is. mean, some people might get there, but I mean, I've always photographed quite close to home. And you you're saying about the landscape, but it's more, think, from the last on landscape, it was discussing are we landscape photographers or outdoor photographers? And I know it's just playing on words.
Joe (15:13.465)
Mm.
Mark LJ (15:13.958)
But when you think about it, when you're outdoors and it's not about, you're not photographing a set thing, you're talking about people working the river, three guys doing, know, that are allowed to dig up the worms. I don't think it's just a, it's, I don't think there's far more emotional content, because I look at your photographs and I always think it's a softer, more emotional, you're not trying to bang somebody's head together and say, look at this, look at this, it's just, you know.
Just a nice softer, more connection, a more human connection if you like with what's around you.
Tim Parkin (15:49.624)
think it's often difficult to make relationships with people if you're there for one time because you've gone to Iceland or whatever and you're the stranger going in, people are reluctant to engage with you. if they see you repeatedly over a period of time, you start having a little chat with them, you get to know them, it builds something different.
Joe (16:05.732)
I was just watching, I think it was James Popsis had a YouTube video about that where he said about a local project in Wales that he wanted to do. And if you visit the Faroe Islands, Iceland, you've got that sense, I might not be back here for a while. I need to make the most of it. I've got to shoot it to death and make, come back with some images that I can then edit over a period of time and keep, you know, filtering through. And I think that...
The difference when you get to know your local area is, you know, you have the old, it's like, you know, folks in the pub, it's like, there's that split tree, there's the big thing there, there's the little bank down to the river. You have these sort of personal landmarks and characters in the scene. And I think as they become familiar, your brain always has a chance to process then the subtle changes, the differences.
And it's a more personal, intimate thing, which I would hope, which is why I like photographers like Peter Dunbrobskis that are quietly, softly spoken, because you sort of feel you see their brain working in the photo. And I think the motivation for the photo isn't, I've got to grab a shot that attracts a headline or fills the front page. So I'm quite averse to the sort of, I don't know, pub.
almost like publication images, I just, I think once you've dealt a lot of them they become quite repetitive.
Mark LJ (17:37.755)
Thanks.
Mark LJ (17:41.454)
It makes me feel a bit... Jem Southern's talk 2016 on landscape where he kept on going back to the same little bit again and again and again and you really got that sense coming from him.
Joe (17:54.66)
Yeah, and Jem, someone I've met locally actually a few times. I'm lucky to have Kessel Barton is a local gallery, run as a charity, and Jem often pops in there. And I was extremely lucky to see the Faye Godwin exhibition and went to the talk by Peter, somebody that I can't remember his name, that was her printer. And he, I had a chat with him.
Tim Parkin (18:17.211)
Darkroom guy. Yeah.
Joe (18:22.86)
And I literally walked from my house through the woods, 10 minutes to the gallery and saw the whole Fay Goulburn exhibition where they had reprinted her original images. And again, there's someone who's, I think it's like a consistency of voice coming through the work. It's a body of work that everything relates and ties in because they have a way of thinking that the motivation is.
Tim Parkin (18:35.064)
Very good it was too,
Joe (18:50.68)
I want to say something about our landscape and it, you know, I think obviously Feynman liked to see objects and things to contrast with the natural world. So, yeah, I don't, I'm a real procrastinator, Mark. So I tend to sort of try and overthink things. And I think the best thing for me is why I started photography in a way was just to get out of the job. And I think in a way that's what.
what your motivation was from what I know of you, Mark, was you've seen plenty of stuff and you want a free head space from that and the natural world.
Mark LJ (19:27.675)
Absolutely. And again, going back to what you were saying, I found it far easier going back to, I mean, I was incredibly lucky, like you say there, five miles, one side was Eden Valley, five miles the other side was Al's Water, but little corners of Al's Water that I could walk around. And I remember Tim saying many years ago, said, I'd to come and interview you. And I said, what about? And he said, what are you thinking about when you go out? And it was like.
I use these opportunities to go out and not think about anything. And I wasn't thinking about mindfulness or all this sort of stuff. It was just great just to wander out and just, and as you said before, see that little tree, see that little stump, see this little bit, see little bits where you expect to see buzzards or otters or whatever else. And it was just, know, just all free photography.
Joe (20:19.172)
I do enjoy that freedom of if you don't want to do it, you don't have to. I think, yeah, in terms of friends that have become full-time photographers, it might change the nature of the beast for me. And I'm lucky as I am that I have tried to, or I've purposely tried to keep it that way.
Mark LJ (20:38.299)
Yeah.
Joe (20:46.212)
to not put that pressure on myself and enjoy it because I love it and I like that. I like looking through a viewfinder effectively and I like framing things up. Yeah, that's it.
Tim Parkin (20:59.758)
Talk about your job. Do I read right? You're teacher or we're a teacher?
Joe (21:02.404)
Mm-hmm.
I am currently still a teacher, secondary school teacher. So that's, scarily, I just saw a photo of me in the sort of staff, you know, line up, the usual suspects from 2004. So I suddenly was like, Oh God. So yes, I look about 12. It's 20, 22 years. 22 years.
Mark LJ (21:25.275)
That's only 20 years ago. That's a mere bag of tail.
Tim Parkin (21:25.518)
So.
Tim Parkin (21:30.892)
I just saw a photograph of me from 1979.
Joe (21:34.402)
I've been teaching art, secondary school art, to 11 to 16 year olds for 22 years. Yeah. And that's just
Tim Parkin (21:42.379)
How does that make you think about artwork when you're teaching it like that on a regular basis and trying to get people to engage?
Mark LJ (21:42.501)
to keep.
Joe (21:46.98)
I trained as a, I did a degree in fine art and painting. So my background is art really. photography, I had my first camera at 16, an OM 30, an old Olympus film camera obviously, but I think sort of more seriously like the art in
formed the photography that way round and came first for me. Particularly painting, the thought of painting was the forefront of my mind, landscape painting. And then as photography kind of took over my interest in having kids and not having the space and the studio space and as an outlet from the pressures of work.
just to get up on the cliffs around, know, Kynance Cove or something locally, was the appeal initially. And then slowly the other, the kind of body, like in my head, hold from work, I hold all the kind of stuff for the kids to do with art. So I've got painters and drawers and, you know, ceramicists and references, constantly giving kids references at school. And then it sort of, in came all the photography.
names and you know that sort of took over that influence and then I started collecting photography books sort of more slowly over the years so that I see the photography in an artistic sense entirely possibly why I have a little bit of a trouble more with like editorial style photography I'm not a trouble with it of course I don't but it's like personally I don't I want I want something meaningful I think from
from a photograph other than it just looks nice. Although sometimes that's fine. So I got into the Dombrowskis, I got into, you know, Elliot Porter's and Caponegra and all those people that started doing something minor white, know, people that had something other than this is just a photograph. And that's where that interest sort of...
Joe (24:10.882)
slowly grow.
Mark LJ (24:13.21)
Was there any sort of artists, because I still look upon different artists as influence or inspiration. Ewan Ross, when he does his interview about favourite photography books, had Heaton Cooper's portrait of a mountain painter, which is a fantastic book. can get, as a photographer, can get just as much inspiration from that as you can from...
so many other more or newer sort of pure photography books.
Joe (24:47.126)
Absolutely. I admire lot of abstract artists. And currently, I've actually bought some oils again. I even got set up with a French easel and the whole shebang I went down to. It's quite amazing. The little river by me looks unchanged. It looks like a Stanup Forbes painting from about 1850. So there's little dinghies on the river. There's all the little, you know, everything's untouched and could literally look like it was from.
from the middle of the last century. So that was quite nice to get out and I sort of dabbled with oil paints again and I felt a little bit out of touch. You you keep your eye in at school but it's not quite the same thing. And I got a slight shock when I didn't particularly like what I made but I got back home and thought, actually I'm gonna just start making some abstract painting. So that framing composition, how color and shapes and textures all interact and...
that feels so inherently what I've always done. So that side of my job, I think, totally integrates into photography. So just on a purely abstract, how do I arrange something coherently, still really fascinates me. And almost the wilder and more messy, the better.
Tim Parkin (26:08.507)
I was going to ask an interesting question about that. How do you see?
painter's composition versus photographer's composition.
Joe (26:18.094)
Hmm, I don't really think there's much difference in terms of composition. It's more about technique. As a painter, how do you deal with, know, classically it's edges. How do you deal with edges in painting? Where do I start typically from the background and you work towards the front because you're going to cover stuff and create depth with layering. So with photography, you're not really thinking about that as much.
Mark LJ (26:37.114)
creative.
Joe (26:47.332)
you're flattening everything anyway. So it's really, for me, it's like forget not so much the depth, but just think about how all those elements are kind of fitting into a frame. And the painter's thinking exactly the same things. It's just technically much harder to do, I think, in a painting because there's so many ways to go wrong. And as photographers, we can just sort of walk on or reframe it or, you know, there's not that.
there's not quite the same level of emotional turmoil in a painting when it goes well and then it falls apart and you have more of a history with a painting that I photographers, we like to think we have the same emotional turmoil, but I don't think we do. I spent 10 minutes rearranging this composition, whereas a painter might say, I was six months working on this and I cacked it all up one day and had a change of heart, which is what I used to do at college.
Mark LJ (27:33.838)
Yeah.
Joe (27:45.56)
come in the next day and repaint everything and spend eight, nine hours constantly painting. yeah, composition, I think is the same thing.
Tim Parkin (27:48.686)
end up with a very slick canvas.
Tim Parkin (27:56.43)
I suppose partly what I meant is painters are very happy with mess and edges that aren't perfect. think photographers, if they could have tried oversimplify things quite often to try and make them as clean as possible, whereas painters don't.
Joe (28:10.464)
Yeah, and again, comes, I think, I have this, this comes back to my issue with this sort of editorial undercurrent within photography that because it lends itself to editorial work, you know, it's published, it's in a magazine, it's wherever. If it was purely like a fine art practice and you knew it was simply going to go on a gallery wall, I don't think, I don't think photography would look quite the same.
sure, fine art can be put in a magazine, et cetera, but really its aim is more for a viewer to a single viewer to appreciate. And so I feel like a lot of photography is trying to appeal to a large common denominator that we know these, a large section of the population will like this kind of image. It's a long exposure, minimal black and white. It's a, you know, slightly.
oversaturated mountain with sunlight, you know, and it's like these kind of key images that it's like a
Mark LJ (29:17.486)
I don't know, I mean, I always think about, I'm looking at the picture myself, so I'm trying to create something that I'll appreciate. It's always been my viewpoint when I've taken the pictures, obviously when I first started taking pictures, it wasn't a case of being taught anything, it was just a case of I was creating pictures that only I looked at. And I always had the feeling when I look at painters, that you're looking at a scene, I feel it's more...
Joe (29:23.268)
Mm.
Hmm.
Mark LJ (29:45.498)
unnatural, I'm not looking at a progression into the image or whatever else. I always see... I mean, I love going round the new Scottish section at the National Gallery in Edinburgh and the likes of Crozier and Alexander Naismith. I don't look at... I mean, it's just a balance of light and dark. Sometimes you've got little bits of detail there, but it's just a whole scene that draws you in.
and envelops you in the atmosphere, it almost exudes out the picture.
Joe (30:17.348)
mean, ultimately it's each to their own, isn't it, Mark? And I guess there are histories within painting that mirror photography and the grand landscape and Caspar David Friedrichs and all that kind of, you know, I think you've had quite a few good essays on that kind of stuff, Tim, as well. And I was chatting to Joe Cornish when he was down with Anthony Spencer at Land's End one evening and we met up and we had a good chat about that kind of history.
Mark LJ (30:29.475)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joe (30:46.244)
So, you if you want the grand landscape in painting within that tradition, you know, there's these amazing artists and one of them is particularly good at color or texture or occasion. You get, you know, Turner pops up who's a master of all these things and, you know, you pick and choose. And then equally, you might look in a gallery and have a complete abstract image that appeals on a different level. I don't...
It's just a different, that kind of messiness of painting potentially, know, texture is part of the game and the surface detail and how you create surfaces is very much like the painter's business. But equally, a photographer just is more, I guess we're just more clinical in our thinking. We're just not as covered in gunk mainly, unless I'm right in the river. So you, you, you're doing, it's just a different practice, a different head space.
And then each photographic practice, though, I was just thinking about wet plates and all those things, you're much more engaged with what you're doing physically, know, and maneuvering materials and, you know, even doing a platinum-bladed imprint and, you know, you're painting, you know, you're painting initially to get your image there. I like the physical involvement and I sort of miss that in painting. But...
you know, think of someone like Val de Bailey who was a painter and or wanted a paint and found that she could do that better in photographs. It's the same thought process and it's a very similar outcome. It's just a different way of getting there.
Tim Parkin (32:30.392)
So I got quite like David Unsworth and David Anandji there who did the painting work. And one of his comments always sticks with me when he said his lecturer said, if everybody likes your work, you're doing something very wrong. And the idea being is.
Mark LJ (32:34.776)
Yeah.
Joe (32:44.056)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mark LJ (32:47.137)
It was interesting when you said Val de Bailey, I'm sure we all know Graham Cook, but he worked on an abstract course recently. mean, I think Graham was possibly the most talented individual that I know. I mean, his charcoal sketches, his portraits, but the abstract work and it's like, how does the brain compose the shapes, the colors, everything else?
Joe (33:12.332)
Yeah, so he Graham, I think it sent me when I first reviewed, I think I was one of the first people to get his his book and review some of his some of his photographs there and I could see the the relationships completely with with painters. And Graham's just so talented, like super talented. But he went on a course with David Mankin, who's a local
a local abstract painter and it's doing very well and that yeah I think as a painter originally but I consider myself more a photographer now but the marks you can create, the freedom within painting, there's a freedom within photography absolutely but there's a sort of visceral physical connection with the surface that
Mark LJ (33:42.019)
That was it. think of a name.
Joe (34:11.532)
that isn't quite the same, which I do miss in some ways. So for me, it's more like a mental game. It's more like a chess game in photography. I think painting's a bit more hands-on. It feels more like rugby or something. kind of, you're in the mud and you're getting physical. know, photography sometimes is just how your frame of mind is. And I really like that. The fact that you have to relax and be open and...
respond and that for me is like where I'm headed I guess. Making images that I need to be in that state of mind and painting is very similar. You know if you go in long term with a plan it never turns out how you, it's like careers, it never turns out what you plan.
Tim Parkin (34:47.342)
Can ask.
Tim Parkin (35:01.934)
Can I ask a question as somebody who's a bit of a book collector? you're going to recommend a few art books rather than photography books, I presume you've got a few art books.
Joe (35:06.241)
Mmm.
Joe (35:13.096)
We have a few hanging about. So my wife was a... well she did two fine art degrees actually. She did time-based performance as well as ceramics. So we have a fair few ceramic books around. We've got a fair few art books around. To be honest, because I'm surrounded by books at school, and I've mainly bought books and brought them into school to be honest, so lot of those are my own books. So... gosh.
So I've got a fair library of book stuff to my side here, but I'm on the Mac so I can't really spin it around. But I've got all my photography books are next to me here. And then in the other room, I've got a whole bunch of art books, which I probably haven't looked at for far too long. So I particularly love Anton Kiefer, who's a practicing German artist, very well known, just had a big exhibition recently. Locally,
Tim Parkin (35:43.662)
Anything recent?
Joe (36:11.78)
sort of in the semi abstract vein would be Kurt Jackson who's also pretty well known. When I left school in the late well mid 90s, no not even mid earlier 90s, you could buy Kurt Jackson for about 400 quid and he's selling them for 20 grand now and has really established himself. I see him a bit like a landscape photographer in the sense.
He would drop his kids at school, walk down to St Just in Cornwall, sketch all day, painting in a cave originally until the fisherman made him a little studio there in an old fishing hut. you know, has projects. He works on an area and gets to know an area, gets to know the history, understands it to make work about it. And so he's someone I've got a few books of his.
I'm trying to think now. John Vert...
Tim Parkin (37:09.26)
and any interesting photography books you've got recently.
Joe (37:13.006)
Photography books recently, I'm trying to cut down Tim. I've filled my library. All my bookshelves are solid now. I've just replaced them because they were bending. And I've now got a pile kind of like a stalagmite, is it, coming up off the floor. Reached going up steadily. recent ones were...
Tim Parkin (37:23.991)
One in, one out.
Tim Parkin (37:30.508)
Yeah, let's say it.
Mark LJ (37:31.416)
Yeah.
Joe (37:40.386)
I've had a couple of nice recent ones I would have to look carefully on my... Well of course, look what's to hand. Let's get it in there. That was a good one recently. So the Natural Landscape Volume 5. What a beautiful production that is. Shall I reach for one? What have we got?
Tim Parkin (37:52.607)
thank you. Yes.
Joe (38:08.654)
John Sexton, give me a second. I've got...
Tim Parkin (38:12.238)
John Sexton, nice black and white.
Joe (38:18.338)
That one, let's have a look at this.
Tim Parkin (38:22.668)
I've just got some black and white film out of the freezer to try and get the dark room going again. I was inspired by Alex Roddy, who's been out with a Leica and black and white film in the mountains.
Mark LJ (38:27.544)
You
Joe (38:28.27)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (38:34.88)
I didn't think I had too many books, but I stopped counting at 100.
Tim Parkin (38:39.768)
Yeah, that's enough.
Joe (38:40.356)
I just reached
Mark LJ (38:41.386)
Yeah, but just keep on building up.
Joe (38:44.984)
I've got a few, I've got so many recently, I, let's say that one, Grant Dixon's was nice. Winter light, absolutely fabulous. That was nice. So I messaged, I messaged Grant and see a lot of his travels where he's getting down in canoes, isn't he? Down Tasmanian rivers and really fantastic. So that's, that's a highly recommended recent purchase.
Tim Parkin (38:51.707)
yeah, I've just got that one myself.
Yeah, it's fantastic.
Tim Parkin (39:06.924)
He's probably done prophecy as Esk, Radventurer.
Joe (39:13.336)
I've also been slowly getting off, you know, A books and those things, Tim, which I know you do a fair bit is, you know, old John Sexton's and Pete and John Blakemore's and what have I got there? That's a nice one.
Pick that up recently, John Sexton recollections. Just fabulous. Slowly getting some more.
Tim Parkin (39:34.296)
That's just one of the best books.
Do ever get them to put some more black and white film or something through large format?
Joe (39:42.596)
Ah, that's something. So my friend who has retired from school now, moved on from school, has just built himself a dark room and lives about, you know, 15, 20 minutes away. So he said, do bring some film around. So I need to dust the, the Mamiya off the RZ67. I've got my knicker mat still inspired from John Blakemore's workshops.
Tim Parkin (39:55.478)
of that sounding.
Tim Parkin (40:10.242)
Yep.
Joe (40:10.756)
So that's also to hand right there with my Penzax spot meter. So yeah, I'd like to do some more film. think time, just lately, I just feel so busy with work, working kids. So my two are 13 and 15. So, Elders just going through ECSE soon. Youngest, you know, doing very well in gymnastics. I'm off to the British.
Tim Parkin (40:24.162)
How old are the children?
Tim Parkin (40:29.124)
yeah, yeah, busy then, yeah.
Mark LJ (40:31.65)
Mm-hmm.
Joe (40:38.798)
championships tomorrow in Liverpool with him. So he's, he's doing super well, but that is constant travel. And I just get these little, little blips of time in a, in a place. Hence, hence,
Mark LJ (40:41.496)
Tim Parkin (40:41.688)
Bye.
Mark LJ (40:53.089)
Yeah, when you get to that level, it's going to be pretty much a full-time job driving around.
Joe (40:58.528)
It feels like a full-time job for him and us. He's there now actually. He's just finishing at nine o'clock after a full school day. yeah, means photography has been a little bit honestly on the back burner. It just feels mean to say tough. I'm off with the camera. yeah, hence enjoying photography books. And yeah, I've got five films.
Mark LJ (41:01.41)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Mark LJ (41:06.4)
Whoa.
Tim Parkin (41:08.237)
commitment.
Mark LJ (41:20.663)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (41:26.104)
I mean, still talking about kids, when you're actually teaching, do you ever feel inspired by particular classes? You've done something, you've felt something, and you feel inspired?
Joe (41:29.326)
floating.
Joe (41:37.412)
all the time Mark. I've done a lot of workshops over the years with various people, notably someone like Justin Cornell springs to mind. I don't know if you've come across Justin, who's a real pinhole, he's a pinhole photographer expert. I bet you probably will have seen his work. Somewhere I've got a book of his where he kind of came up with the idea of a 35 mil roll of film that you put in your mouth.
with a pinhole in it and he's got the teeth, he's looking at photos through the teeth of various weird things like spoons of breakfast. You'd love it, Mark. He's absolutely bonkers. So he worked with Falmouth University and some first year graduates to the students and stuff. And I took a load of kids down to the Lizard Peninsula, like Lizard Lighthouse basically, a few times.
Tim Parkin (42:07.22)
him, yes I have.
Mark LJ (42:13.517)
Good!
Tim Parkin (42:17.122)
Yeah, feels good.
Mark LJ (42:18.04)
That's it.
Joe (42:34.84)
and they made beer can pinholes and then they all got given and made pinholes to put up for six months and do the solar equinox and stuff, which I joined in with and that was great fun. So we had a good laugh doing that. Definitely.
Mark LJ (42:38.808)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (42:43.532)
For real.
Tim Parkin (42:46.87)
I think right, yeah.
Mark LJ (42:49.884)
RUBY
Mark LJ (42:53.41)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (42:56.8)
I suppose it keeps your mind young, doesn't it really? If it's something you love doing, it's just eternally youthful because you're constantly being replenished by fresh thinking, I suppose.
Joe (43:08.324)
Absolutely, Mark. And that's why I still enjoy it. And for kids that access to understand composition, understand having a voice, actually, an artistic voice, a camera is a very great hook, an immediate hook that they're all used to with phones and so on. So it's not such a leap to say, do you know what, if you thought about this a little bit more or da da.
Mark LJ (43:21.004)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (43:27.853)
Yeah.
Joe (43:34.092)
you could start making something really kind of meaningful or thoughtful or, know, so I ran photography clubs. used to do like a crash course in photography for them because a lot would opt to do photography instead of art at college, thinking it was creative, but not as much work or something. And they had absolutely no comprehension of what they're getting themselves into. So I used to wheel out my RZ67, I'd get them all to shoot a frame of medium format film, show them how it was developed and you know, just
give them a sense of what could be achieved. And also I use photographers as artistic references for them in their exam work and so on. So like hand strand and so does the art exam board in fairness. Brett Weston's on there this year for AQA. know, have, photographers are part of fine art and I reference them a lot.
Tim Parkin (44:23.374)
So excellent. Yeah.
Mark LJ (44:32.375)
Hmm
Joe (44:34.878)
that's rather nice and sometimes I'll email someone like Hans Drang and I said look Hans, do you mind if I I'm going to use you as a reference for you know the natural world or whatever and some kids just latch on to that so I think that's a nice thing to do.
Mark LJ (44:53.941)
You it got me thinking about Paul Kenny as well with the finer, but not even using the camera.
Tim Parkin (44:54.168)
What do you think is success rate?
Joe (44:57.868)
Yeah, absolutely. So Paul's right on that. You know, I feel he's an artist using a photographic medium. Well, yeah, as loosely as we can with a scanner. The concept is at the forefront of what Paul does. But he's making images that are also universally kind of attractive and interesting. And I feel like he's a perfect example of where
Mark LJ (45:05.686)
Yeah, exactly.
Mark LJ (45:17.399)
Yeah.
Joe (45:26.934)
everything comes together to make something really rich and quite universally appreciated. That's a lovely balance.
Mark LJ (45:33.791)
Yeah, it's really interesting to listen to him. I traveled down to Edinburgh three or four weeks back because he was talking Edinburgh Photographic Society. So I used it as an excuse to escape to civilization. And it was just really lovely listening to him talk about the influences and how he ended up where he is.
Joe (45:45.188)
Mmm.
Joe (45:52.14)
I was... Yeah, I really love Paul's work and I was recommending him to a friend of mine, an old art college friend actually, who still paints and I said, you'd love this guy, I'm Paul Kenny. And I thought, I'm sure I've got Paul's book somewhere and I spent ages looking for it and I couldn't find it and I thought I'll look it up on eBay or something. was like, God is important. And then as luck would have it on my top shelf, my photography book, I thought, I'm sure I've got C-Works there and sure, you know, there it was.
Mark LJ (46:12.245)
Hehehehehe... Yeah.
Mark LJ (46:20.203)
Yeah, yeah.
Joe (46:21.518)
So that saved a few quid. So yeah.
Tim Parkin (46:22.286)
Thanks, Tom. Yeah.
Mark LJ (46:25.147)
yeah, I remember buying it at Patchings. think I went to a talk you gave at Patchings years and years and years ago. I think it was Rob Knight used to arrange a do there. And he came with a big batch of books for like 25 quid or whatever and are a wee bit more expensive than that now.
Joe (46:42.764)
Mmm. Yes.
Tim Parkin (46:44.366)
I've got a few questions, well, a couple of questions off some readers. So as it's any questions, I feel I should ask them to you. Daniel Eek has asked you about your work in the more intimate photographs. And we've talked about that a little bit, but he's asking, was it a conscious choice compared to louder, bigger, grand landscapes, or was that a symptom of the way you started working?
Joe (46:46.5)
Go, Yeah, well, you moved not to.
Joe (46:58.745)
Mm-hmm.
Joe (47:13.08)
I think it wasn't, it's not really a conscious choice so much as an evolution over time. yeah, I, it's to do with that chasing thing. I didn't, I didn't like being dictated to really by weather. I didn't like thinking, damn, it's a non photography day.
that didn't really go down well with me. Because normally it was like, I've got, you know, I still have one day off a week, I have a Tuesday off. it's like, I've got to make the most of that day, whatever's happening. So that was the first thing. And if you can't see the horizon, because it's raining, or, you know, the sun isn't out, or it's the wrong time of day, or it's a blue sky. I didn't like that feeling that it's like you get this one shot on a
Tim Parkin (47:56.334)
That's really rude letters, isn't it? Yeah.
Joe (48:10.146)
you know, St. Michael's Mount or whatever. the other thing is Cornwall is actually quite tricky to shoot the larger landscape. More often than not, you are inside a tunnel of trees. You're walking and you can't really see what's around the corner. It's not like not that I know the Pennines well, but I said, I suspect you get a good vista. You're up on a peak. You've got
Tim Parkin (48:18.894)
I'd agree with that, yeah.
Mark LJ (48:20.279)
Yeah.
Joe (48:37.4)
you know, big views. aren't that many big hills and it is intimate in nature. You're generally on a little footpath walking through the landscape in a much more intimate way than looking across the Pennines or the Yorkshire Dales and having this kind of classic English countryside view. So that's another reason. I felt what I'm seeing in front of me
reflects the nature of the landscape more perhaps than bigger views. There are and then of course that leads to coastal photography and I suppose I initially did a lot more coastal work and then I found perhaps that was just getting a little bit repetitive and I like
Tim Parkin (49:24.834)
think it's difficult to be original with coastal work in the same way.
Joe (49:27.094)
It is hard to be original and I naturally found I was staying until after sunset and making naturally long exposures getting into like one, two minutes by the time you had a polarizer on and so on. So I guess, yeah, to answer the question, it was a natural progression. And I also felt I didn't really want that vista image as my thing.
So there was a slight conscious decision there, but it's I'm not averse to a vista in any way. just I just I felt there was more opportunity in intimate landscape put it that way.
Mark LJ (50:07.553)
Yeah, or individually.
Tim Parkin (50:09.934)
easier to express. Andrew Griffiths.
Joe (50:11.145)
Yeah, and it's more individual.
Mark LJ (50:12.682)
And do you think as you get older, you were saying before, because I certainly feel as I've got older, there's desire that I have to make a photograph. In effect, it's karma, it's fate, whatever else. I'm far more, I'll still go out. It doesn't bother me what the weather is. It's 50 mile an hour in horizontal rain today, but we've still gone out and done our 12,000 steps. And it's just, yeah.
Joe (50:31.588)
Yeah. So, yeah. This morning I went out this morning, Mark, and I just had a quick one that I almost drove past and I stopped at a little spot that I knew and I thought, wonder if the, I wonder if the Hawthorn's out yet down there and some of the willows and I know they catch the light. There's a couple of silver birch and I thought, it's a bit of a hike down the hill and I felt a bit unwell and I thought I'll go and then I'll...
I'll give it a go and I'll just chomp down there quick and I made one photograph. Normally though, I'm not, I find I get in a rhythm and I have to take a few and get my eye in. And once I am in, I get a flow kind of state going. And often I'll make quite a few photographs that I'm happy with in a
Mark LJ (51:19.392)
Yeah.
Joe (51:29.302)
in a certain situation and you know when your photographer radar goes off and you go I know this is a good thing here sometimes you can't quite get your head around what to do but you know you're in the right place at the right time the light's good something's interesting you and you also know I guess with maturity you know this is a kind of dead end and I'm just going to take pictures that honestly I'm going to delete later so today was a
If I take any, I'm going to delete them day. And some days like saunton sands with the light and the people walking on the beach, I recognise that was worth grabbing a few different shots. So I made panoramics, made some squares, I shot quite a lot. Hence the parking ticket.
Mark LJ (52:10.496)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (52:16.855)
It's a nice feeling when you get into that, as you say, when you get into a zone and...
Joe (52:22.052)
Hmm.
Mark LJ (52:23.382)
It's funny when you get into a zone you think less and less. Or I certainly feel like I'm thinking less and less because it's more an automaton. It's the more natural individuality I suppose and expressiveness comes through.
Tim Parkin (52:39.286)
Interestingly, Andrew Griffiths has a question about that. He's asking about the fact that you work with what could be seen as a technical camera with technical lenses. And how does that affect the state of mindfulness that you mentioned previously, is it?
Joe (52:57.57)
Yeah, so that's a good question because I think I have different cameras almost for different states of mind. So you know how like a street photographer will have a, you know, Ricoh GR3 thing set up with focus at a certain distance and you're thinking for that scenario, you know, I need a half a second. So if I'm wandering around with a Holger,
Tim Parkin (53:14.978)
Mm.
Joe (53:27.748)
I'm in a headspace of like, do you know what? I really don't care whether this works or not. I'm just going to shoot a few things and see what happens. So that's in that mood. I'm in a fun, happy mood. This default with the GFX and a tilt lens is kind of, really, I'm thinking to try and get a really quality, high quality, high resolution image that I've really considered and I've thought about. The Nikon Matt is a fun one with 35 mil film and it's a bit of a...
You know what? It's not a massive loss if I only get three shots on a roll. So, uh, and the pinhole randomly rarely these days, but I've got a zero 2000 pinhole, um, six by six. So that comes out as it's just a different thing, you know, to keep, keep me interested, I guess. um, and then the RZ is, is a whole nother way of thinking. Um, so I, I got the RZ.
when I used to have a Canon and I was fed up with the aspect ratios and I always loved 4x5. I very nearly thought about getting a 4x5 camera. Realized that I wouldn't really have the time to properly enjoy that and just knew I had these little snapshots of time. So the RZ was like a in-between house, if you like. So it slowed me down enough.
Tim Parkin (54:27.82)
Okay, yeah. Yeah.
Joe (54:51.928)
I had a frame that I liked the look of. I liked the ability to switch the back from portrait to landscape very easily. But I had a sort of checklist to go through and I've just updated my website when I'm in the process of, but I wrote my one and only blog on that was all about the craft of film photography and how that makes you think through what you're doing. So yes, the technical aspect of it.
It's not exactly technical. It's not like a, you know, Linhoff and all those bits going on or a phase, but it's enough. It's easy enough to get wrong, but it slows me down and makes me stop and think and arrange things properly. So yes, that, from what I remember of that question, it does put me in a frame of mind of I'm making an image. I'm not taking a snapshot, particularly the tilt lens.
tilts are not normally a shoot from the hip kind of lens, or they can be. I actually shot with the 45 mil at a school event when they were all, my son plays the bass and they were all playing in a band and we had loads of bands on. And I shot them all black and white squares with a tilt lens tilting down their guitars and everything and just shot it handheld at like 6,400 ISO.
Tim Parkin (55:59.32)
think there's something about it.
Tim Parkin (56:16.27)
Bye.
Joe (56:19.256)
And they all came out really nicely and I thought, know what, tilts are kind of underrated in their ability to do that stuff as well. So in answer to the question, yes, I've always slightly added a slight element of difficulty in my photography setup, even digitally, to make me slow down a bit and faff around enough that it's a bit slower.
Tim Parkin (56:26.882)
Great.
Joe (56:48.644)
I still manage to shoot in too many images though.
Tim Parkin (56:52.302)
Sometimes it's almost like a bit of a mantra, some of the technical side of it is, you work through it and it empties your head.
Joe (56:57.74)
Yeah, like everything like becomes innate. So, you know, I just get so used to I can now sort of see a plane of focus pretty quick, realize what the issue might be. Realize that, you know, on a 90 mil, I'm to be a little bit too zoomed in to get what I want. And I'd be better on a 45 about that high with two degrees till and you get used to that thing. Once you're set up, isn't it a bit assume like a field camera.
you can kind of plonk it down and you're basically ready to go again. So particularly like the leaves and the seaweed, I had a relatively flat plane of focus that I can then stomp about, look for another little arrangement. And the excitement for me comes from, I know something's happening here, but I've got to frame it. Where do I go? What central figure am I creating? What composition have I got?
Tim Parkin (57:28.684)
Yeah, doesn't have to be slow.
Joe (57:54.66)
Um, so yeah, you get quite used to those technical things, I think. Um, and I feel like probably using, having an image upside down and all the things probably people struggle with initially very soon become a, you know, you don't think about it in large format stuff. Um, yeah. And I was thinking about people like Ben Horn, you know, he's, he's someone that's probably adding more and more difficulty to limit.
Tim Parkin (58:14.413)
and more natural.
Tim Parkin (58:24.354)
Yeah.
Joe (58:24.748)
what's possible, but...
Tim Parkin (58:26.838)
and 40 to 50 pounds a shot as well now, I think.
Joe (58:29.636)
40 to 50 quid a shot, but also, you know, he's gone to that eight by 10, isn't it now? sort of, you know, really having to, yeah, work with that limitation and knowing you have to sacrifice stuff as a result. That's why I'm not good. I'm not good. Like Mark said, I can't, I rarely will go out and just not take a photo.
Tim Parkin (58:49.664)
walking past things that are nearly perfect.
Joe (58:57.058)
I'm pretty rubbish at that actually. generally will take something. And I saw Joe Cornish, think it was possibly with Alex Nail, sort of interviewing him once. he's, Alex said, I'm quite surprised how many pictures Joe takes. And so I see it like sketching. It's like you're just working your mind and it, yeah, I take a lot. I take a lot of pictures and I think what I post online is a tiny,
Tim Parkin (59:14.456)
Yeah.
It is,
Mark LJ (59:19.221)
Yeah.
Joe (59:28.472)
Percentage of what I actually shoot. It's I've always shot abstracts. I've always taken ICM images. I've always taken Black and white image. I've always done all sorts of stuff multiple exposure done all sorts of things just to kind of keep it fresh I've done a fair bit of portrait work over time In fact, I just bought a 110 GF lens recently the f2 It was too good a deal on eBay
So again, I went handheld this morning with that and just walked around the landscape, is basically an 85 mil F1.4. So yes, that's... Yeah, I like making life weirdly difficult for myself.
Mark LJ (01:00:06.111)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (01:00:17.454)
hurdles and limits are a good part of the artistic process.
Joe (01:00:19.17)
Hmm.
Mark LJ (01:00:20.938)
Yeah, absolutely.
Joe (01:00:21.816)
They are. But I still carry far too many lenses with me. Until recently, where I'm just wandering out with one camera, one lens, I've literally had five, six GF lenses in a bag with tilts and a know, Benro tripod and you know, load of stuff. I'm because I'm not like, unlike you guys, I'm not hiking up mountains particularly. I'm not. I'm normally relatively near a car park. You know, we're in Cornwall. I can get to the other side of Cornwall in 35 minutes.
Mark LJ (01:00:34.389)
You
Tim Parkin (01:00:35.372)
Wow.
Tim Parkin (01:00:39.862)
I can relate to
Joe (01:00:51.296)
It's not. It's it's impossible.
Mark LJ (01:00:52.053)
It's quite nice not taking a lot of stuff. I had a week with three lovely guests last week in the of Torridon and it was like Nikon Z8 with the 70-200mm, Leica Q3 with the 28mm well fixed. I suppose I quite like the limitations because I don't have a lens to cover every eventuality. It's almost nice when I discover something that actually isn't easy with the lenses I've got.
Joe (01:00:59.972)
Hmm.
Joe (01:01:09.924)
Hmm.
Mm.
Mark LJ (01:01:22.015)
But again, it's just, I think a little bit of my OCD is trying to make life hard for myself. I don't think there's anything, as you said, there's nothing wrong with making life hard for yourself. It's fun.
Joe (01:01:31.128)
Yeah, I know. It just makes you think, like I also have that kind of inner voice of like, there's always a picture there somewhere. There's always something of interest and it's just, I'm the limitation, do you know what mean? So I've got this...
Mark LJ (01:01:39.455)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (01:01:46.358)
I like the challenge of saying the subject might not be perfect, but I'm going to see what the best I can make of it is.
Joe (01:01:49.005)
Yeah, and not all photographs have to be as busy that.
Mark LJ (01:01:52.685)
It's you said about Joe Cornish, when you're out with Joe, Joe will approach a complex scene and it's almost like a mental exercise. How can a photograph have seen? And he might know at the back of his mind that there isn't a photograph there, but it's the exercise of working it out and where do we stand and where do we look and what do we include? What are the edges of my frame? What's the interior of the frame? And you can see his... Yeah, but it's... They're like little training exercises, they're fun.
Joe (01:02:08.164)
Thank you.
Tim Parkin (01:02:14.2)
party 10,000 hours.
Joe (01:02:21.784)
Yeah, I agree.
Mark LJ (01:02:22.183)
As Joe says, I find it very awkward if I go out, if I'm just walking, my 10,000 steps, I'll have a little camera slung over my shoulder, a little waterproof bag in it, and it's just slung over because I just love where I am and I love capturing a little bit of it.
Joe (01:02:32.58)
I
I'd also feel awkward not having a camera of any sort. I feel quite vulnerable, oddly vulnerable.
Mark LJ (01:02:38.581)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (01:02:44.43)
Thank you very much for a good chat. We'll try not to leave it another 12 years before the next one.
Mark LJ (01:02:44.551)
and continue get it totally.
Joe (01:02:47.692)
It's pleasure. It's a pleasure.
Yeah, anytime, anytime I'm generally available. I'm just running around constantly. Well, I've got a ton of other things. It's thinking of them. And I guess it's what I like and some people might go, that's just not my scene. But I always come back to a lot of books that I like. John Virtue is another one who I think I really like his work.
Mark LJ (01:02:52.337)
Hahaha
Tim Parkin (01:02:57.614)
I'll get your recommendation for books and I'll stick them on the article as well so people can...
Mark LJ (01:03:01.107)
Yeah, I'd like a few recommendations, art books, because I love nice art books.
Tim Parkin (01:03:16.002)
Yeah, that's what it is, isn't it?
Joe (01:03:22.628)
So yeah, between some photography books and some art books, there's plenty out there. Very nice to meet you Mark.
Tim Parkin (01:03:28.526)
That'd be great.
Mark LJ (01:03:29.91)
Mmm, that'd be really good.
Tim Parkin (01:03:31.896)
Thank you very much.
Mark LJ (01:03:34.731)
Thank you.
