Jon Gibbs
Tim Parkin (00:00.545)
Hello and welcome to On Landscape. We're here with our special guest John Gibbs and our usual raconteur Mark Littlejohn. We'll be just trying to annoy John for the next hour I think. Is that about right Mark?
Mark LJ (00:00.573)
Zero.
Mark LJ (00:14.921)
Yeah, yeah, well it's a southerner so we've got a head start really.
Tim Parkin (00:18.718)
Yeah, we've been doing offline about the storms already. it's a, you know, we were recording this a little bit delayed because two days ago it was right as Storm Amy hit us and we were out without power for about over 24 hours. I think Mark was getting blown around. You were off work, weren't you, John?
jon (00:19.0)
Won't stop.
jon (00:38.089)
Yeah, work was cancelled one day and like I say we did have a tree fall over in Norfolk so I mean it's been hectic over here.
Tim Parkin (00:43.936)
Does it make any sound?
Mark LJ (00:45.575)
Is the other tree okay?
jon (00:48.692)
Yeah, the other tree's fine. Yeah, doing well.
Tim Parkin (00:52.554)
So John, you work for National Trust, is that correct?
jon (00:56.898)
Yeah, yes, yes, mate. It's absolutely lovely, A couple of years ago, I sort of thought there was something missing during the summer season. You know, we don't do a lot during the summer. And Steph saw an advert in the paper and went, ooh, National Trust. Just down the road, 10 miles down the road, a little part-time job. And absolutely wonderful, mate. That has really, really helped. Really sort of saved me, filled in some really dead time.
So I work at Horsey Wind Pump, which always gives the kids a bit of something to laugh about, because everything we've got down here is not windmills, it's actually wind pumps, they're used for pumping the water off the land. Don't give me that face, Mr. LJ. But yeah, the wind pumps, and that's where I work. Horsey, a beautiful site. I don't even call it work, it's absolutely lovely. Yeah, I've got a lovely crew with me, just great, yeah, really.
Tim Parkin (01:24.383)
Excellent.
Tim Parkin (01:32.382)
Yes.
Tim Parkin (01:38.239)
You
Tim Parkin (01:48.585)
Do you think that's informed your photography or complimented it anyway?
jon (01:53.133)
What is nice is that though I'm not off a space, but I'm sort of welcoming people in and I'm also doing a bit of guiding actually in the wind pump itself. You just appreciate a site some sort of change over the seasons. Not that I see the height of winter, you know, because our hours reduce, but it's nice to watch the change in the year from a certain perspective from the point of wildlife as well as, you know, as well as the colors of the trees, you know, how the grass is the earth.
Tim Parkin (02:20.83)
Yeah.
jon (02:22.658)
just lovely honestly mate, it's just really been good for me.
Mark LJ (02:24.373)
How many people do you get through, would you say, on an average day? You know, come through.
jon (02:31.849)
Smalls yeah, we're small site so we you know No more four or five hundred on a big day on a big day. Yeah, and obviously some
Mark LJ (02:40.661)
Okay. But I can imagine you'd be lovely at that because having run tours with you and it's your empathy, it's your patience, it's your kindness that comes across. So you're ideal front man for the National Trust in my view with that sort of thing.
Tim Parkin (02:42.365)
pretty popular.
jon (02:59.895)
It's been lovely mate, know it's a little tougher during the height of summer. think the smile is a little bit more false during the height of summer but any other time it's happened.
Mark LJ (03:06.641)
Yeah, well that was one of the things that we moved from because we did have the odd entitled person coming on the boats. Because obviously it was a similar sort of thing, you know, working in an attraction. And I was very close to wrapping people in anchor chain and throwing them off as we went past Silver Point. Because it's 200 feet deep there, so there's no chance the debugger's getting back up.
jon (03:18.815)
Absolutely mate, yeah, I love you, yeah.
jon (03:26.571)
That's it, mate. Yeah.
Tim Parkin (03:27.205)
Not allowed.
jon (03:30.509)
Yeah, you do have to bite your tongue a few times but you know that's dealing with the British public isn't it, that's how it goes sometimes.
Mark LJ (03:31.241)
But yeah.
Mark LJ (03:39.241)
Does that make it?
Tim Parkin (03:39.722)
I was having a chat with some people from, I've been trying to work on this designated bathing area for Glencoe and part of that is dealing with all the landowners around the area and one of the people was from the Glencoe Trusts and I was chatting with them about all the swimmers abusing the new tourists, making a mess and stuff and she said it hasn't changed since the 1950s or 60s really. There's still this
There may be a more people, but the proportion of videos is just about the same. And then type them in. Yeah.
jon (04:12.492)
I think that's the same with everything else nowadays. Everything else is heightened more on social media now and we hear about it all the time. We think that these people have suddenly appeared three or four years ago when like you say idiots have always existed haven't they? I mean that's as simple as that really.
Mark LJ (04:19.818)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (04:20.381)
Hmm
Mark LJ (04:28.661)
I think the only difference is, if you go back to 1960s, 70s, whatever, think Glenn Daugherty was still single track road till the 80s or whatever. I'm not entirely sure, but I know it was single track until relatively recently. But it's the accessibility. So we've still got exactly the same percentage of idiots. As John says, the percentage of idiots won't have changed since Time Memorial, but they're just getting more widespread.
Tim Parkin (04:29.509)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (04:57.779)
It's just easier for them to travel. And as John said, social media, it's ideal if you're a twiny old git, then you've got social media to fall back on and twine about just about fecking anything. Do you find that working the set hours now, I suppose when you're doing the photography, you have the gathering, whatever, do you find working the set hours now that you'll see things and you think,
Tim Parkin (05:07.326)
There are so much material to line up.
jon (05:13.341)
As you do.
Mark LJ (05:26.005)
can't wait to get out, it maybe makes you slightly keener.
jon (05:30.943)
There's, I think the one trouble this year, the one problems I had this year is the actual heat this year. So everything, I've had a huge break, absolutely massive break. In fact, when I go up to Scotland this weekend, that will be my restart for this year because summer was horrific. But there are times when you come in or your colleague at work has said, John, did you see the mist this morning? I'm like, no. And that breaks, that breaks your heart.
Tim Parkin (05:37.682)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (05:57.717)
you
jon (06:00.139)
Mist and fog now seems to be sort of a fairly rare thing around here now and you have to grab it while you can. You know, we used to have, I remember when we used have days during the winter where we had three or four days in a row, but now it's just like a real rarity. So we do, yeah, there are times when I think, even during the day, I mean, you know, I like to think I'm, you know, more keen on the end of day and start of day, but you do, you watch this one, you know, the wind pump and you watch the sky behind it, you think,
Tim Parkin (06:05.117)
So dry, yeah.
Mark LJ (06:06.942)
Because
jon (06:29.432)
wish I was photographing that but the gears the gears actually in the car so it's ready if I need it sort of thing you know but
Tim Parkin (06:37.242)
You say you haven't taken many photographs for a while, that quite a while or is that just like a year or just a few months?
jon (06:43.703)
I've since, probably since the start of summer, May-ish, I've been out twice with designated photo trips, just to my beloved Winterson, which I absolutely adore. And I've enjoyed the break, guys. I've enjoyed the break. I really do. I find I do that a lot more nowadays. 10, 15 years ago, I might cut myself up and say, John, why have you stopped? Why have you stopped? And now I think it's quite an important part to just kick back.
and let it come back into me. There's no pressure. don't feel any pressure now to have to take a picture. Yes, I get a bit piddled off if I miss some great conditions or one of my friends says, look at this the other day. And I'm like, you know, you have to let it go. But yeah, I quite enjoy the fact that I can tell myself, yeah, just give it a rest for a while. And I think that's good for me personally. I think that's good for me.
Mark LJ (07:34.932)
It's it.
think it's good for all of us when we get to, I wouldn't say get to that stage, because when I had, came in slightly late, but I was like mad keen getting out every single day, taking photographs every single day. And this year with various things going on, it's not been the same. It's been quite nice not to feel that pressure. then still, mean, today was a day for the dog, but we went to Glen Afri to give him something fresh to sniff.
So it really was a case of like walking along camera in my hand and just, know, without thinking about, it's two months since the last Keeper, or it like three weeks since, you know, and almost the pressure on you to keep on producing, keep on producing. And maybe we're just old, John. I mean, we're nearly as old as Joe Cornish. I mean, come on.
jon (08:22.994)
I think...
jon (08:28.547)
It could be an age thing, Mark, it could be. You know, how you see things now. You know, that young man, well, I wasn't even young 20 years ago, but yeah, there was a pressure. I hate to say that because photography shouldn't be about, there was, oh, you've to come back with something. No, if I've been out and just experienced lovely weather, and if I get one shot, so be it. If I don't get any, I've still been out and had a lovely time. Whereas before it was all about, oh, you must get this, you must get that.
Luckily that's just all left me now and it's great.
Tim Parkin (08:59.579)
remember chatting with Paul Wakefield about he basically takes a couple of years off now and again he just doesn't photograph anything and then he just comes back to it occasionally and for him it's organized trips and I think that's one of the key things is I've lost lost a little bit since I've been in Glencoe because I live here and I photograph here trying to fit things in what everything else you do is quite difficult whereas if you plan I'm gonna go away for a week you'll get loads done in that week it's a dedicated trip and I've
Mark LJ (08:59.646)
Dude, dude.
jon (09:19.241)
Mmm.
Tim Parkin (09:28.601)
I think I'm missing out on that now.
jon (09:31.528)
Yeah that's tough to speak in front of a man.
Mark LJ (09:31.572)
Did you think, when you talk about the pressure, shut up. You know, when you talk about the pressure, did you feel more pressure after you won the landscape photography thing? I know it's a long, long, long, long time ago, but when you won it, did you feel a change? Did you feel, I can't take a photograph of this anymore. I've got to do this, I've got to do that. Did you feel pressure to?
Tim Parkin (09:38.18)
Go on, Mark.
jon (09:48.488)
What was my?
Mark LJ (09:59.304)
keep on producing or produce something different.
jon (10:03.305)
know what no not really and I tell you why and this probably goes back to social media again because it didn't exist it did exist back then and a lot of people maybe forget that about the first years of that competition so there wasn't anything out there for me apart from reading the magazines to compare with which is probably no way is God's end I mean good God I wish life was like that today you know I genuinely do social media and all that you know it can it can
Mark LJ (10:09.875)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (10:13.3)
I so.
Mark LJ (10:23.88)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (10:28.56)
Hmm
Mark LJ (10:29.501)
Yeah.
jon (10:32.435)
break you, it really can if you're too serious and you know it's the thing about you know the old famous phrase about comparison and all that you know the thief of joy it's just I wish I could sometimes step back from that you know nowadays but back in the day mate yeah not a yeah there wasn't really anything it was just the case of a few nice things happened and that sort of set me on my way I mean the competition gave me a lovely bit of confidence and I suppose that one of the highlights of it was two years
After that, when myself and Gareth, we had a gallery in North Norfolk, which was lovely.
Tim Parkin (11:04.911)
Yeah, yeah. That gallery was quite successful for a while, wasn't it?
jon (11:07.42)
and it just gave me that shot in the arm. You know what Tim, I always remember we started off in, our first location was opposite a pub where they were selling credit crunch lunches. So we were talking about that time of where everything was doom and gloom. So we had a a quiet start, then we had a great big peak in our, we did 10 years there. We had a great big peak.
And then we could see the decline coming in again. There'd been a couple more galleries appear in Wells where we were. And luckily, it's a little bit bittersweet to say, but we just got out in time for, unfortunately, Covid. So in a way, nice timing, which would have made that very awkward for us. But yeah, we certainly sailed a bit of a rough sea at times. yeah, it was a great experience. And one of the joys about it was that I got to know North Norfolk.
even more and it's a beautiful beautiful part of the world unfortunately a part that I don't get to visit so much at the moment so you know that's that's sad from that point of view but it was a great experience yeah it a great experience
Mark LJ (12:18.269)
Would you ever do that sort of thing again or are you happy just to do what you're doing now and do the few tours during autumn, winter sort of thing?
Tim Parkin (12:18.777)
See you, bye.
jon (12:27.4)
I think, yeah, we've had, yeah, there's been a lot of soul searching over this year, especially as, you know, it's been such a quiet summer. If I can keep it, it's a little bit similar to yourself, Mark, you know, with that, that lovely sort of summer job, you know, I mean, I know you adored your summer job, as do I. It's quite a nice balance. It's a lovely little balance. And if I can just fill a couple of tours or three or four tours a year, I'd be absolutely ecstatic, but it's, for me, it's really tough. It's really tough filling those tours.
I had a couple, I've got a couple at the end of this month, in fact I'm off to a sit next week. And they filled up like last minute and last minute is really difficult when you're like, there's not a lot of money. So it's a tough one. I'm still umin and arin what I actually do. But we'll see, yeah we'll see. The trouble is before I've always tended to, as I just mentioned, tend to be saved at the last minute with bookings and I'm like.
Mark LJ (13:09.426)
Yeah.
jon (13:25.416)
Well, couldn't you have booked six months ago? So, you know, so I just felt that little bit more confident, but, know, it's, it's a little bit, everything's a little bit up in the air at the moment, but I'm, I'm cool with it. And like I say, if I stop it professionally or semi-professionally what I am, I'm happy. I'm happy with it, you know, because I still get, I'll still get out of my camera. The camera's not going anywhere.
Mark LJ (13:46.708)
It's a nice, I always think it, going out with people, I mean, I don't do big tours as a rule, it's usually just me and three, but it gives your own passion a little bit of a boost, sort of ignites it again a little bit. I think if you're out with the right people, you all learn from each other, you all feed off each other, and it's just great to be out and...
I mean, the guys that you take out, all the folk you take out are lovely people. Because we've run tours before and they just tend to be really, really nice affairs. But do you find that your own passions sort of increased when you go out with nice people and you're all looking at the same things, you're all in love with the scenery around you?
jon (14:30.267)
I-I-I-I-
It's lovely, yeah, I I've seen this one in October, know, this one next week is my start again for the year, as I mentioned earlier. And I know I've got a great group with me. I mean, I know all the guys aside from one. So it's gonna be a lovely trip, as is the one in Norfolk the month after. And I think that will be the, you know, firing me up again. You know, that will get me going again. I've tried to avoid looking at too much social media and other photographers, and I just wanna come back in with just,
getting out enjoying it again guys really that's basically you know because it really did take a back seat this summer the biggest probably the biggest break I've had but I mean I don't know what obviously I don't know what your weather was like up there guys but we were we were warm down there and I just don't do heat and it really really sort of knocked me back it really did you know it almost got quite lazy really and so this
Tim Parkin (15:24.802)
Scottish summer is about as warm as I like it.
jon (15:27.522)
Yeah, yeah, it was hard work.
Mark LJ (15:27.685)
Yeah, no, mean, even up here, think we were playing in the Loch Caron Open, which is the world's weirdest golf course. And it was 32 degrees in the Highlands playing golf. it was absolutely crazy. I mean, we're not too bad. on the coast, but it didn't really do anything for you to sort of like fire up to get out. No, dawn this far north is like...
jon (15:39.994)
Yeah, I mean, that's mad. Yeah, that's.
Yeah.
Mark LJ (15:57.383)
around about half an hour before you go to bed. It's so ridiculous.
jon (15:58.758)
Oh, it's just evil. Yeah, it's too much. I find those early mornings and that during the summer, they don't even, I don't even entertain the idea nowadays. I'm not interested. But it was weird because I was up with a group in March and it was mostly blue sky. It was like a blue sky holiday. The guys were great. They were so laid back. It was lovely. if they were all keen,
24, 25 year old photographers, oh come on, let's go out, let's go out. They would have been quite disappointed because it was blue. It really was blue. Thankfully they weren't 24, year old photographers.
Tim Parkin (16:35.095)
Winter was weird. Very weird.
Mark LJ (16:36.627)
I don't think I could cope with the enthusiasm of a 25 year old anymore.
jon (16:42.406)
I'm not sure I can anymore. think that if I do carry on doing them, I think I'll have a little age limit now, think. No, I don't actually think that's a bad idea, guys, in all honesty. If you're 25 years old, you can walk up a hill in an hour, and I can walk up in three hours, then best you probably don't come along.
Mark LJ (16:48.89)
hahahaha
Mark LJ (16:54.683)
Right.
Mark LJ (17:03.163)
Yeah, no fit people need apply, Not too cheerful, not too fit. But, so, I mean, do you look forward each year to the tours?
jon (17:06.241)
I was so scared. bless.
jon (17:15.191)
I get very nervous guys and I don't know why that's horrible. It's one of my horrible traits in life where I just get nervous about them. Everyone says don't worry about it but I tell you what it is guys it's just it's just a concern I want people to have a great experience but of course you cannot control the weather and everyone says when they come on the talks no I know but I still let it get to me.
Mark LJ (17:24.167)
But you but.
Tim Parkin (17:30.41)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (17:33.939)
You never can.
But it's, I told my, I tell my kids, there's no point in worrying about something that's outside your control. So every time running up to a tour, I'm nervous as hell because I'm thinking, oh God, look at this weather, look at the forecast. It's like 60 mile an hour winds, but there's not going to be gaps in the light. then you get there and it's blue skies and you feel personally responsible for the weather that's occurred that week. Everything that happens that week is down to you. You've said that week.
jon (17:45.442)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tim Parkin (17:45.622)
Sorry.
jon (18:01.976)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mark LJ (18:06.959)
I go to the lakes the same week every September because it's my favourite week in September and every time I've run a tour during it's either been blue skies or it's been peeing down the rain. But the weather's been set since the beginning of time.
jon (18:07.3)
It is tough man.
jon (18:18.308)
Mmm, yeah.
jon (18:23.094)
No, it's, it's true.
Tim Parkin (18:23.21)
Do you people who expect you to control the weather, but get really pissed off when it's bad weather?
jon (18:27.311)
No, not at all Tim and everyone who comes along says, you know what it's like Mark, they'll all go, it's okay, probably can't do anything about the weather, but it's just getting into your own head and telling yourself, that's how people are John and that's what they'll always say, but you can't help, like Mark said, just can't help feeling a little bit responsible, which is bloody stupid, it's absolutely crazy. So yes, I'll...
Mark LJ (18:52.038)
Yeah, but again, that shows the type of person you are, John. I've run tours before with you. I've run tours before with you and I remember one instance where it was like, I was sort of like walking away and you were just so patient. You were kind, you were smiling, you were attentive. And it's the empathy, isn't it? mean, what do you think is the most important thing, quality that you have when you're taking these people out, when you're taking photographs?
jon (18:57.092)
Well it shows, yeah, I care because I don't want, yeah.
jon (19:21.482)
dear. No, no, no, no, not really, no. I'm not really a teacher. I'm not a teacher. And that is why I now call the ones I do, I call them tours because I'm not, I don't think I'm a workshop leader. As in, this is that, this is what we do. That's not my thing. I mean, I saw a video from someone the other day. It was a workshop thing and everyone was in a line. And I was like, ooh.
Mark LJ (19:21.766)
Put in your Nespa.
Mark LJ (19:34.866)
Thank you, this is Tim.
Tim Parkin (19:34.921)
Yeah.
jon (19:50.596)
I find that difficult. I like people to go out, do their thing. I'll come and find you. You go over there. Just let me know where you're going. You know, I just want to be there for people if they need me and I want them to find their own way and I can only suggest and take them there, show them lovely places. yeah, my view of it has changed very much. Over the last couple of years, you know, I did try and do talks very recently and I just found I couldn't do them.
I just found that wasn't me. It just wasn't me. And I'm just not a natural speaker in front of people, whether that's my horrific shyness that I've probably had for many, many years. So I find myself now more as a, not a glorified tour guide, because I think that's belittling myself a little bit, but I'm there for people if you need me. I'll...
Tim Parkin (20:40.181)
That feeds into one of the questions we've had from a reader actually, is given the high level of capabilities of modern cameras, the ease of use of lightroom, do think the skill of a photographer is now changing from a technical aspect to an artistic? So more of an artistic guide than a photography as technical practice guide.
jon (21:02.047)
Absolutely, Tim. Over the changes over the last few years with cameras. It's not a case of any idiot can pick one up and take one, but you know, I think that's what we need to try and get back in. That technical element and all that gear talk, I mean, I've had years of it now. I've been reading the magazines for years and I've had enough. I've had enough of it. I'm bored with it. I want to see...
I've been out with people and they'll show me the back of the camera and I think, bloody hell, how did you do that? What were you thinking? I want to see a little bit more mind usage rather than these dials on the front. We'll deal with that another time. I don't want to put technicality back into it. I like to see people thinking. it's always, it sometimes can be difficult in Norfolk if you take people out because we're not as amazing.
We are amazing in places, but we're not as scenic as Scotland is. And if people can start thinking outside the box in places like Norfolk, then they can do it anywhere. And I think that's one the things that we're missing at the moment. We've got too many technical perfectionists, where I think some of the images nowadays, when I go on social media, they look too perfect, too cold, almost like, you know, just, you know, yeah. And it's difficult with someone who's, you know, being on God knows how long I've
Tim Parkin (22:08.809)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (22:23.069)
O- overdone. Yeah.
jon (22:28.183)
been back into photography, but 20, 25 years at least now. I've seen it. It's very difficult. know, I mean, I know I don't look my years and all that, you know, but no, no, no. okay. No, but I've seen a lot, you know, I've seen, you know, I've seen the magazines when I wrote the magazines, I've seen 12 months cycles, 12 months cycles. I go on social media, I'll see the same bloody places. I know I go to a lot of the same places, especially I'm going up to a since soon guilty as charged.
Mark LJ (22:37.657)
He
Tim Parkin (22:39.285)
I don't fish for that one.
jon (22:57.836)
but I just want to see something a bit different. And I think with my return into photography in this October, I just hope that I see things a little bit different as well. I think it'd be bloody good for me because I don't wanna, you know, we do repeat ourselves to an essence because of, you know, our basic styles and that, I do wanna, hopefully there's something in there, you know, from maybe the people around me that can force, not force me, but.
Tim Parkin (23:21.182)
Yeah.
jon (23:25.418)
influence me just to look things a little bit different.
Mark LJ (23:28.754)
I think sometimes with the technical aspects, you'll see a lot of stuff on the social media where it's like shots at night sky and you've got the Milky Way above a perfectly lit tower on the coastline and all these sorts of things. it's like cameras. I was with somebody a while back and they were looking at a pattern on the ground and the camera was just going... And it was like one press of a button and it took something like 36 exposures because it was focus stacking and blending.
Tim Parkin (23:29.446)
one of the problems with.
Mark LJ (23:58.694)
And it was like, jeesh. I mean, the capabilities of the cameras, mean, would still be, those would be putting in different skies in the camera.
jon (24:07.347)
It's really weird guys. I'm a dinosaur.
Tim Parkin (24:07.452)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (24:11.06)
That Milky Way thing, the big landscape at night is really going out of fashion a bit now because I can pick up my phone and do exactly the same thing without capable. So that used to be the sort of like passport to technical.
Mark LJ (24:22.545)
Yeah, I mean, I'm still on iPhone 13, but I just put it out the bathroom window when Northern Lights forecast. And it would take a picture of the trees and the garden and the Northern Lights, and it's like, I might have to go out. But it's amazing what the phone does.
jon (24:35.712)
They're really, they're really scary. Yeah, yeah, they're really scary. I mean, I saw the other day, someone was talking, I remember what camera it is, but it does in-camera focus stacking. Now I didn't know, I am a dinosaur and I don't mind admitting it. I couldn't teach anyone about processing or anything like that. I do what I do, I know what I know on Lightroom and that's that, and I'm happy. But yeah, there was this article about it focus stacks in the camera and I'm thinking, didn't even know that happened.
I you know, I do a lot of focus stack and taking the images, you know, for like, what am I trying to say? For abstract, know, detail images, you know, where you need a, you know, you need a nice depth of field. But yeah, there was this article about this camera that did all the focus stack and I'm thinking, I just, yeah, you know, we're just spoiled.
Mark LJ (25:21.231)
Yeah, no, was the ladder was just talking about it. It was a little detail. I think it was on lower D'Abeg beach because there's little bits of, they're not slate, they'll come to me in about two o'clock in the morning. But it took 36 images of the one picture because it was focus stacking and blending. But it's like you said before, I just feel that sometimes as John said before.
Tim Parkin (25:44.627)
Yeah, they don't have to do much for it.
Mark LJ (25:50.705)
When images become too perfect, they become sterile. There's beauty in imperfection.
Tim Parkin (25:57.267)
We had this conversation in the Natural Landscape Awards when, well, I think it was the first or second year when there was a couple of American judges. I'm not saying it's an American thing because we have a few Scottish photographers who are into that perfection minimal thing where you just keep on simplifying and perfecting until it becomes so abstract as a landscape. It's no longer of the landscape, really. I mean, you can say that's an artistic thing and you're creating something new. But I like to...
I like my landscapes to look like something I can walk into. That's my personal preference.
jon (26:31.904)
Yeah, I mean I've changed my, just changed my way of shooting a bit. If I'm out now, maybe, for example, just at my beloved Winterton and I've got a big landscape, four or five years ago, maybe I would probably stacked. But now I'm just happy to let things go. If the front is slightly out, I'll live with that. How do we look at pictures now?
Mark LJ (26:52.975)
Yeah, I have to say I've never, I've never, but it's each to their own and that's the beauty as long as you don't try and impose our own wishes on, mean, and that's the thing, it's a tour leader, because I just think of myself as a tour, I'm not a tour leader, I'm not a workshop leader. But.
jon (27:01.183)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (27:16.369)
It's encouraging people to approach, you you were saying about the artistic side. I think it's really important to encourage people to follow their own heart and to follow what they do. And if you, perhaps you can give a wee bit of assistance in how they approach that or give them a different viewpoint in how they approach that without altering what it is they want to do or what they hope to achieve. It's just discussing things, helping out.
Tim Parkin (27:36.455)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (27:43.771)
taking them to places where you think might help out with that. Because quite often, certainly if you go to Ascent and people haven't been to Ascent before, it's like, where do want to go? Because I would say it's their holiday. It's what they want to
Tim Parkin (27:54.002)
I think that's it.
If people can do what they essentially want to do and you can enable them to do that, what we'll end up with is more variety rather than getting everybody looking the same. I think that's what I want to see.
jon (27:57.087)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (28:06.994)
What it's like John said before when you've got a workshop or a workshop leader and you've got, mean, I've driven up going up the Glencoe Road when you go around the corner with the Lambert house or whatever it is you call it. And it's been like a row. It's like an arc of about eight tripods. I've seen folk on our beach and it's like been an arc of tripods and it's like, feck off, run free, do like a starburst, like a.
jon (28:24.703)
Yeah.
jon (28:33.599)
Yai yai!
Mark LJ (28:35.301)
Bunch of Scouse car thieves getting stopped by the police. Just bugger off. You know, find your own stuff.
jon (28:43.679)
No, I do, I do. I just want people to go off and just explore, just explore and come back to me if they need me. And I want to put them, I mean, you guys know what a cinema's like. I mean, it's actually perfect for that. know, all the locations you go to, there's so much, so much variety within a landscape, know, within a location that, you know, there's something for everyone.
Mark LJ (29:01.521)
What dates are you there, John?
jon (29:05.435)
I'm going up, we're driving up Friday, my Jazz is coming up with me, she's gonna stay in the house while we're up there. And then I'm there. And the boys are turning up Saturday. And then we're start from Monday to Thursday, and then the guys can stay at the house until we have to leave on Saturday, yeah. So it's a nice break and all the guys are staying for a week, so they've got a nice relaxing time, bit of time for themselves as well. I'd like to think me and Jazz can go.
Mark LJ (29:10.094)
Okay.
Mark LJ (29:30.976)
We'll be passing on the Saturday. I'm arriving in Ullapool on the Saturday when you're coming away.
jon (29:35.807)
yeah, yeah.
Tim Parkin (29:41.486)
What about you stay when you're out there then?
jon (29:43.752)
Well I've been using the same house for about six or seven years Tim and it's on Lough Colag as you drive out of Lough Inver towards Invercay and it's an absolutely stunning riverside, Loughside house and it's beautiful, absolutely beautiful.
Tim Parkin (29:52.848)
All right,
Mark LJ (29:59.822)
It's a lot, I've not been in it, but it's a beautiful looking house. Beautiful looking house.
jon (30:03.262)
It's beautiful, mate. It's beautiful. And we love it. Being up there with the family as well. I've been up there with Steph and Jazz. We went out for a holiday as well. And you sit there at night, great big huge line of windows and there's Pine Martins badges coming past. The only trouble this time of year is the bloody deer. They will be an absolute... Oh, mate. They really can spoil your evening. So I've, you know, I mention it and mention it to the guys. I say, please bring your earplugs because they are...
Tim Parkin (30:20.944)
They're all coming down aren't they?
Mark LJ (30:21.999)
Yeah.
jon (30:32.093)
Because they literally come down to the driveway and literally out the house. So if they start bellowing outside the house, you're like, gee, you know, it's...
Mark LJ (30:40.696)
It's quite it's quite
Tim Parkin (30:41.06)
They had it with a power cut in Kenlock, Leven. had it. They had all the deer at the back of Kenlock, Leven. Obviously it was dead silent and nothing going on. All we could hear was hundreds of deer going at it. Quite spooky sounding.
jon (30:50.238)
Yeah, yeah.
Mark LJ (30:51.106)
It's weird and surreal. Our first rotten season here, we had the Northern Lights. So was outside taking pictures of Northern Lights and all I could hear was the waves crashing on the beach in front of us and the deer running behind us. It was just totally surreal experience because it's quite a primordial sound.
Tim Parkin (31:14.767)
Mm-hmm.
jon (31:14.974)
Oh absolutely guys, absolutely. I mean you know we often, you know we come back from the days out and especially if you've got a clear sky. I mean you guys know what the clear skies are like up there but down here it's not the same but when you go and see a highland clear sky and then the Deira you've got that, it's like you say it's sort of like yeah, otherworldly. it's amazing. Not when they wake you up at three in the morning, I mean that isn't fun but that actual experience is wonderful. Yeah, love it, love that.
Tim Parkin (31:35.544)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (31:44.464)
I've got another question for you and it's contextual to your doing workshops as well in a way. Kai Thompson asks how much planning and what kind you do before going to a location. I'll ask you that in two ways, one for yourself and a little bit for when you're doing planning your trips and planning where to go with your clients.
jon (32:06.605)
I think the thing with tours and that is, and one of the things that also sort of, I'm not saying break my heart, that sounds a bit pathetic, but I see a lot of guys go somewhere a couple of times and then there's a tour up as soon as possible. You know, I get to know these places, you know, because I wouldn't put them up if I didn't get to know places. Obviously I don't live in the area of a Sint, but I've been up there, the work, I've got...
Mark LJ (32:31.792)
Thank you, Ms. Thompson.
jon (32:33.266)
God knows how many X's on my ascent maps to show where I've been. I know what's up there. So in all honesty, Tim, I have a great big list of locations, but it's all on the day. It's all on the day. Let's start somewhere, get a feel for the weather, and then we may have to move here. We may have to drive 30 miles. We may have to say, forget ascent for the day and we'll go up to Sutherland.
Tim Parkin (33:01.08)
Yeah.
jon (33:01.773)
in the subland but let's go up the north where frequently unfortunately you go to somewhere like quinag when you're looking over quinag and you can see like arkel finnevan and they're all like in beautiful light where you're working in a ton of gray you know drake rubbish so you know i think it's just a case of being flexible and knowing your area
Tim Parkin (33:16.098)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (33:21.75)
Is that the same for your own photography?
jon (33:26.76)
Um, ooh, that's a good question. With my home photography now, I tend to go out with my friend Rick a lot or my friend John. And one of the worst things about it is it's the old thing, the text message thing before the night before. Well, where we going then? And I'm like, I'm just not the person to ask at that anymore. And I'm a bit like, just put me somewhere, put me anywhere and I'll have a go.
I think that's how much things have changed over the last few years. Just put me somewhere, or maybe somewhere I haven't been, know. Rick's, bless his heart, has introduced me to some lovely new places that I didn't even know existed, you know, not on the doorstep, but you know, close enough to me to be going, geez, why didn't I know about that? And that's what I like now. That's how I like approaching photography. Yes, I have my favorites, like, know, Witteson, which is my go-to comfort blanket photography. I think it's probably a nice way of describing it.
But I do like being challenged now, not necessarily challenged photography, but photographically, but I just like to be put somewhere different, know, let's have a go. Yeah, absolutely Tim, because you know, I hate to keep saying it, but I have been doing this for quite a few years now, and I do want that challenge now. I mean, you know, I've done a bit of street stuff with Rick in places like Norwich, and I've loved it. I love doing the street stuff. just want something in there. The landscape will never disappear.
Tim Parkin (34:27.969)
make you work for it, but yeah.
jon (34:49.932)
landscape photography will always be here but there's just that little little x factor that's missing at the moment which i think sometimes we all need you know we always need that little change and like i say yes absolutely just a little bit yeah just a little photography hit you know that just gets you you know gets that passion back
Tim Parkin (34:59.245)
You want that little buzz from getting that picture. Surprise.
Mark LJ (35:06.224)
Is there anywhere you'd like to go yourself? I not to run a tour because I'm the same as you. I'll only run tours places that I know intimately if you like, but is there somewhere you'd like to go?
jon (35:21.673)
Not bothered about anywhere outside the UK at all. at all. I would love to go. I was thinking, unfortunately, just before Covid hit about places like the Uist and stuff like that. I'd love to have gone out to there. I've only been out to the Outers once, 2011 obviously, time I've been on Harris. So that breaks my heart. I see some of the work from there. But yeah, those, and I've never been to Ireland. I'd love to go to Ireland.
Mark LJ (35:43.856)
Okay.
Mark LJ (35:50.766)
Yeah, done, I think I've had a few hours working for somebody else near Wicklow or whatever, but that was just tied in with something else. But yeah, Ireland looks lovely. like, well, it's softly green and just seeing some gorgeous stuff from Ireland.
jon (35:51.185)
Yeah.
jon (36:00.794)
Yeah
jon (36:06.52)
Absolutely. Yeah, I know. Probably one of the other ones, that's a bit of a coastier, I've never been to Pembrokeshire. So that's somewhere I'd love to... Well, yeah, there's so much, mate. I mean, we had a couple in today at work and then, you know, you always ask where they come from. And they said, Northumberland. I mean, I've been to Northumberland many times, but even soon as they said it, I was like, I can see it. I can see Butyl Bay, can see, you know, all these beautiful places. And I thought...
Mark LJ (36:14.5)
Don't even know.
jon (36:35.568)
you're getting there, you're getting back into it, you've got that feel again. But I think we've got everything, think the UK's got the law. So I have no desire to go anywhere else.
Tim Parkin (36:45.389)
We're very lucky, very lucky at the variety we have in the UK.
Mark LJ (36:47.246)
We are very lucky.
jon (36:48.802)
Absolutely, couldn't agree more Tim, we've got everything, we literally have. I'm sure there's some people, I mean, you get a lot of people sometimes joke about Norfolk being flat. Well, we are flat, but we're not like the Fens. But then again, you've got to look back to, remember a book from a few years ago, Paul Hart. And he did a lovely black and white book about the Fens and he made the Fens look amazing. It's all in the mind, it's all in the mind, just putting yourself outside that.
Tim Parkin (37:08.192)
Yeah, yeah.
Tim Parkin (37:14.582)
Yeah.
jon (37:19.065)
here's another one of the famous locations, know, just plop me anywhere and I'll have a go. mean, you know.
Tim Parkin (37:23.564)
Was it some of first British landscape photographers, the Fens, was it? With the old black and white photographer who took the pictures of the boats going around and reeds and stuff. Can't remember the guy's name though.
jon (37:32.443)
Maybe so mate, maybe so. I'm not an expert on photographic history but in the right conditions. Blue Sky Day is going to be awful but know, fog, mist, mean yeah, like we all know that changes everything. It's just perception isn't it? So yeah!
Tim Parkin (37:40.542)
Yeah, got a character.
Mark LJ (37:53.786)
But I mean, you do some beautiful little stuff. I mean, when you go away with the guys, we'd be sort of like encouraging, know, going back to the beach or other places and looking down and doing small stuff. Because I got your wee book a while back and that was all just lovely close. I hate to use the word intimate, but like, you know, they're all smaller views.
Tim Parkin (37:53.994)
Indeed.
jon (38:05.082)
Mm-hmm.
jon (38:14.939)
I have a problem with that word. don't see how that ties in. there you go. Sorry guys. Well, you've always. It's not until you believe. I just think it's a really strange word to use for photography. Yeah, a weird word. Very odd. Yeah, very odd, I just call it abstracts detail. I don't even know if abstracts is right. Details, I don't know. But I love stuff like that,
Tim Parkin (38:22.602)
No, no, yet, same.
Mark LJ (38:23.511)
No complain, come on, have a rant.
Tim Parkin (38:30.922)
degrees of weird full stop.
jon (38:41.562)
The last time I think I was up in a Cint or the time before, I just used the 135 the whole trip. I didn't use any other lens. Yeah, and it was lovely. And that was lovely as well. That's a lovely exercise. I mean, it's been said by millions of photographers, but I think that's a great exercise as well. 135 lens, I use that with the D850, so I use the Sigma 135. So that gives me.
Tim Parkin (38:58.38)
Which lens is that?
Mark LJ (38:58.387)
yeah.
Tim Parkin (39:08.82)
Okay, yeah.
jon (39:09.828)
So that gives me 1.8 as well. I, you know, I can do lovely, you know, perspective landscapes, but I can also do, I can also do me, you know, the stuff at your feet for want of a better phrase. And I can do something that I'm a big fan of now is that very, very narrow sliver of focus now, which is I'm really into now. I love that stuff.
Tim Parkin (39:26.871)
Yeah. Do you say you still use a D850 then? Is it one of the DSLRs?
jon (39:31.654)
I've got a D850 Tim and I've got a Z7 and that's what got now. And I've got two, I use two lenses. So I've got the 135 on the 850, which weighs a bloody ton. It's like carrying one of my kids. And then the Z7 with the 24-70 and that's all I use. that, yeah, I love it. I probably could do with that sort of 85 or something. I'd love an 85 with a large aperture, you know, so I can do.
Tim Parkin (39:34.739)
Okay, combo. Yeah.
Tim Parkin (39:49.654)
Now, good standard, yeah.
jon (39:58.477)
you know that selective depth of field stuff with that but the 135 I absolutely adore mate yeah absolutely adore
Mark LJ (40:04.399)
I'll send you an 85 1.8 because it's sitting on my shelf.
jon (40:09.079)
You do that, mate. That would be lovely. Thank
Mark LJ (40:09.552)
But for the F-mount, for the 850. The 850 was a camera she'd never saw. I had an 850 and I sold it. Stupid. Because there's abs, you know, it's like, I remember writing something ages ago about, I, you you're saying about the 135 Sigma, I've got the 135 F2DC, you know, and I've also got the old 105 2.5 EIS, which is absolutely gorgeous. And I could shoot all day with that and all week with that. But the thing is,
jon (40:16.887)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (40:38.319)
I wrote about how just because it's old doesn't mean you say it's obsolete. know, see, Steve McCurry's picture of the Afghan girl is published every day somewhere and it's shown, and that shot with the old 105 2.5, know, Nikon now have a 105 1.8 out that weighs, as you said, it weighs as much as me, never mind one of your kids. Does it do any better at the job? Does it give you an image which...
jon (41:00.953)
You
Mark LJ (41:06.319)
you're looking and you think, well, that's taken by the 105 to 1.8 as opposed to, you know, the older one. But the 850, having said that, was a camera that I felt was just, didn't have a weakness. Yeah, it was a little bit heavy, but you knew you had it in your hand.
jon (41:23.213)
Yeah, we-
I've always been a fan of that mate, think picking up the Zed 7 songs I was like Jesus this is like a bloody toy!
Mark LJ (41:27.47)
Yeah, yeah.
Mark LJ (41:32.897)
I put an L bracket on my Z7. I put a decent L bracket on the Z7 because I can actually feel it in my hand. I know I've got the camera in my hand. And also if it's always in my hand and I put my hand down, then it's the, I mean, the L brackets, bar to bits. But yeah, there is something to be said to known. I used an R5 for a little while when I was doing the calc last year, the year before.
jon (41:37.368)
It all doesn't look very big.
jon (41:42.09)
Yeah, yeah.
jon (41:51.544)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (42:00.036)
didn't have an L-bracket on it, I had a really lightweight 100-400 DRF, you know, the cheap version. And it felt like I had a toy in my hand. It almost felt like my concentration wasn't kicking in fully because I didn't have a proper piece of equipment in my hand. The 850 with the 135 will feel like, I'm going to work. I've got a camera in me. Yeah, exactly.
Tim Parkin (42:22.184)
not compromising is it?
jon (42:22.272)
Yeah, it's really weird, isn't it? It's really weird. I've always liked big cameras. you know, I had, well, my first DSLR, when I first started many years ago, know, my mum and dad bought me a Pentax MX, which is tiny. But when I got back into photography, I was using, I ended up using a 6.7 Pentax, Mami a 7 rangefinder, you know, big chunky cameras. And I think I've always liked.
Tim Parkin (42:46.378)
The magic cameras, yeah.
jon (42:48.665)
Yeah, and you knew they were bloody cat especially when you press the six seven, you know, it was like bloody gun bloody gun going off. So yeah, those. Yeah. Which the trouble is with the 850 I'm struggling just again for old age. I struggle with the the the LCD on the back. I really have to squint. You know, my close focus distance now has got really not very close anymore. So I'm like this. And of course, if you've got sunlight everywhere, you can't really see.
Tim Parkin (42:52.97)
Chunk.
jon (43:18.04)
So that's my only problem because if I could put an electronic playback in my 850, I'd have the perfect camera. I genuinely would, yeah.
Tim Parkin (43:24.466)
Yeah, the new modern view finders, digital view finders are pretty clever things.
Mark LJ (43:25.263)
I did see one with a loop that they used just on the back of the camera because that was...
jon (43:28.724)
stunning.
jon (43:33.238)
Yeah, I could probably just do something like that, mate.
Mark LJ (43:35.841)
or just a £1.50 pair of glasses from Asda.
Tim Parkin (43:39.102)
Hey John, if you want one I can send you one. I've got an old one of those if you want to borrow one. One of the loops, nice loops for the back of the camera.
jon (43:42.872)
What's that? Well, you know, send me some stuff.
Tim Parkin (43:48.83)
Yeah, I can do that.
Mark LJ (43:50.639)
So when are you picking up your last in Edinburgh this week? Okay.
jon (43:55.818)
No, no, Jazz is back. Jazz is back. So we're going up. We're driving up on Friday. And then we're staying at Abingdon.
Mark LJ (44:07.063)
Where are you driving? We'll have this discussion later because I could probably meet you because I'm going down to Edinburgh and I'll give you that 85. I'm looking to have a play.
jon (44:11.062)
Yeah, yeah.
jon (44:14.936)
Alright mate,
Tim Parkin (44:16.222)
Can I wind back to your gallery for a moment and ask? I'm sure not many people have run a successful gallery in the UK. And I'm interested if you've got any advice for anybody on how to make it successful.
jon (44:20.385)
Of you can.
jon (44:32.437)
Wow, that's a good question too. Sorry, let me just adjust my light because that's gonna die and you won't be able to see me in full color. It should be awful for people. Tim, that's really difficult. That's really difficult because I'm trying to think of examples. You could take the most wonderful picture encompassing North Norfolk, say a beautiful picture of Holcomb Bay, the rainbows.
Tim Parkin (44:41.257)
Yeah.
jon (45:00.512)
coming through and big waves, the wind rushing through the grass, this stunning picture encompasses North Norfolk. But you can also get Mr. Joe Bloggs and his missus come in and go, that's orange, that'll go nice with our kitchen. So that was the sort of thing you had to deal with in galleries, and I'm sure people like Stuart now, who's got his lovely gallery in in Keswick, probably has that thing. I don't know whether he does or not.
But we always thought, you know, some people, I mean, it's a very affluent area where we had our gallery, very affluent area. people, sometimes there wasn't a connection and you felt almost like cheated in a way because people came in and got, yeah, that'll look nice there. But it wasn't a case of falling in love with a picture. It was like, well, that'll just look nice above our Arga or something like that. You know, it was that type of feeling sometimes. And you almost like, no, you can't have it, so do you. I really worked hard, you know, or myself or Gareth worked hard for that picture.
Tim Parkin (45:41.051)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (45:50.642)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (45:52.995)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (45:59.176)
do you think the photography is important for in the the running a gallery then? mean can you get away with is the quality of the photography a really big factor or is that just is it selling is the biggest factor?
jon (46:13.659)
I mean again using the galleries example and some of the galleries I know in other parts of Norfolk you know there were guys who had simple point-and-shoot cameras and then they were creating them on canvases you know were talking a good few years now when canvases were a bit more popular and he was selling loads so I really don't know Tim and I haven't known for 25 years so if I don't know now I'm never gonna know mate because I've you know
Tim Parkin (46:35.462)
Hahaha.
Mark LJ (46:37.135)
Do you think the price point as well, I mean you said you were in an affluent area, so if you're in an affluent area, you can't really charge too cheap a price.
jon (46:48.054)
Again, really difficult mark. We tried to account for everyone. So we had little pictures where people could come in and buy themselves a little souvenir view, put it on their manual piece, that sort of thing. We thought that's nice. Then we, you know, we got something like 14 11s, 10 by sevens, 20 by 16s, and then big stuff on the walls as in framed. And we used to do well with phone boards. Initially we did very well with canvases to start with when they were, you know, still popular.
It was very difficult to find quite the right thing to do. Do we put that extra 50 quid on? I suppose we were always learning about that viewpoint that just because it's expensive, that mean it's worth what it is?
Tim Parkin (47:24.167)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (47:36.299)
Yeah. You've got the advertising slogan, reassuringly expensive. I remember there was one lad, I've not seen him do anything for ages, but he was a gallery wanted to show some of his pictures at a show down in London. He would be selling his pictures for like 150, 200 quid. They put 1500 quid in his pictures and I think he sold six or seven. Because we're 1500 quid.
jon (47:42.58)
Yes, of course man, it was difficult.
jon (48:02.441)
Yeah, I know mate, it breaks your heart. It's all about in the right place as well. The trouble is what you had was you had two chaps, myself and Gareth, pretty, not got a lot of money. And we just want a turnover. We just really want a turnover. We didn't want preciousness. This is an addition of one in 10 or whatever, selling for 1,000 pounds, which we possibly could have done. But we weren't, I think our mindset was we weren't.
Mark LJ (48:08.356)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (48:15.857)
Yeah.
jon (48:31.733)
And by the way, we had a four meter by four meter space, so we didn't have a big gallery. Obviously we've got to sit in that as well. I'd have killed for something like what Stuart has nowadays. I beautiful space, absolutely beautiful space. So yeah, I think we always had that slight fear of using wall space for 1,000 pounds where we could have sold maybe four 250 quid ones. And even then sometimes at 250 quid, we were thinking, is this a bit much?
Mark LJ (48:37.934)
Hmm.
Mark LJ (48:44.556)
Yes, it's lovely.
jon (49:02.261)
But again, galleries and I'm sure again, Stuart, these days will tell you, people have no perception how much a print costs, how much framing costs and how much glass. Absolutely, and everything, it's just a photograph. Well, great, go and get one of your photographs printed up, take it to Mr. Framer and then come back to us when you've got your, I did it for 25 quid.
Tim Parkin (49:12.999)
Framing is a classic, isn't it?
Mark LJ (49:14.124)
Yeah, Freeman.
Mark LJ (49:24.558)
Did you ever snap back at any of them?
Mark LJ (49:32.974)
I know I had a tour last year in the lakes and I set them all up. I didn't tell Stuart we in the area but I got them to go in sort of like five minutes apart and I asked the first one to go in and say I really like this but is there any chance I can just buy the frame and not the picture? And I think the next one
Tim Parkin (49:32.999)
internally.
jon (49:34.237)
Absolutely. Absolutely mate.
jon (49:46.037)
You're a git, aren't you,
jon (49:55.034)
you what mate it's it's one of my huge regrets you're a stud
Tim Parkin (49:55.536)
That's so cruel.
Mark LJ (50:00.43)
The next one was, was this on your phone? I think the third was supposed to, I think it was David Queen went in third actually, and he went in to ask something about Photoshop. And at that point, Stu recognized David Queen and we started giggling and realized that something was going on.
Tim Parkin (50:11.078)
Did anybody get hurt?
jon (50:15.891)
Yeah.
jon (50:22.206)
The trouble is Mark, know, to my day I can remember a lot. I wish I'd written them down. I wish I'd written them down. But I would hope he had.
Mark LJ (50:28.994)
Yeah, think Stu's written quite a few, but it's no different from being on the, it's no different from being touring around Ullswater on the boat and people asking if Glenriggans the same height as Pooley Bridge or do we move the islands? Do we turn the air force off at night? Is Ullswater a filled in quarry? You know.
Tim Parkin (50:41.668)
You need to do that,
jon (50:45.31)
Yeah, I know, they're all out there.
jon (50:55.988)
It's a bit like Father Ted, they have to take the islands in if the weather's bad or something, you know, it's like, oh man. They are out there, that's a struggle, bless them. God bless the British public.
Mark LJ (50:59.95)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it Tidal? Are there sharks?
jon (51:08.03)
Hahaha
Mark LJ (51:09.549)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (51:10.055)
Would you recommend running a gallery then, after you've had that experience?
jon (51:12.852)
You know what Tim, I'm not sure how it's going to work nowadays. don't know and I wish Stuart nothing but success. But I think you've got to be in the right place and I think he is in a fantastic place now. But I think if you're not in the right place, I don't know how you would do it. I think the best bet would probably be to do an occasional sort of, I mean, I did sort of the craft fair for a while. I mean, that's heartbreaking.
Mark LJ (51:37.198)
But even then it's not easy for Stuart because I remember Steve Watkins asking me what's old in the lakes and I said tat. See Stuart takes an absolutely beautiful atmospheric landscape. shows, I think he really does showcase the best, the most romantic, almost nostalgic rose tinted views of the lakes. His pictures are beautiful. But people don't.
jon (51:41.811)
No! I don't suppose it is.
jon (51:59.443)
Yeah, absolutely agree, yeah.
Mark LJ (52:02.178)
Go and want that, they want a simple bog-standard blues guy picture of Derwent Water where the randy Sally proposed to their uncle John or vice versa or whatever and it's mementos or...
jon (52:09.085)
Yeah. Yeah.
yes, absolutely mate, absolutely. I mean, again, I can think of an example back from the gallery, blue sky images, because that's what people remember. People don't get up at six in the morning, they don't stay out till half past nine taking photographs. So a lot of people don't say that and that's where you get a lot of the connection with photography not being believable because three quarters of the population don't know what a twilight blue is or what a mist is. So they belittle it and keep on it, fortunately.
Tim Parkin (52:23.727)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (52:38.405)
Yeah.
Mark LJ (52:38.508)
Yeah, no, no, exactly. I'd walked back at me front path and lived in Penrith with a really grumpy face on because I'd been out since like four in the morning and it'd been blue sky, blue sky, blue sky. And me neighbour would be standing there, big grin on her face saying, it's been beautiful, isn't it? Have you got some great photographs? And it's like, back off. But yeah, and that's what it is.
jon (52:54.727)
I know what he's going to say.
Yeah, I think, think, yeah, that sounds like my dad. My dad has finally worked out after all these years that blue sky is not what I want dad. What was lovely out there. yes dad. Yeah, not in Norfolk guys, it's tough. It's tough in Norfolk blue sky, very tough, very tough.
Mark LJ (53:10.126)
John doesn't like blue sky.
Yeah
Tim Parkin (53:21.762)
Hey, John, tell us how your book went. Tell us how your book went.
jon (53:24.838)
Sorry?
Which one? What was that?
Tim Parkin (53:29.034)
The recent recent book
jon (53:31.57)
I love doing them Tim and I will do another one but what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna do one with Jazz. My Jazzman bless her heart is now is gonna go back to Edinburgh next year and do a PhD and she's creative writer, poet, beautiful. So we're gonna try and do something together in fact she's coming up with me I'm hoping she's gonna write some stuff next week.
Tim Parkin (53:35.033)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (53:42.647)
Okay, cool.
Tim Parkin (53:53.752)
fab.
jon (54:01.97)
And that's what I'd like to do. Something with her. Yeah, something with her. I'd love to do one on Winniton. I would dearly love to do Winniton. But yeah, she writes words. Oh, gosh, she's gonna be embarrassed if she watches. She writes words and sentences that I have to. I always remember David Warb when I got his first book. And I was like, Jesus, wet. I was like, that's a dictionary, dictionary, dictionary. And jazz is the same. Jazz is very much the same. And I was like, bloody hell.
Mark LJ (54:06.446)
That's nice.
Mark LJ (54:25.866)
You
jon (54:31.73)
She's mine. I'm like, what happened there? But it's amazing. She, and she's assessed with Scotland, So she, in fact, she literally, I don't know if you'll know the guy. God, mustn't get his name. Mackay Brown. what's his name? Is it Graham Mackay Brown? He's a Scottish poet. lived on Shetland, I think. And he wrote as well as poems as well. And she's just fascinated with it. I think she's an honorary Scot. I mean, I've had...
Tim Parkin (54:35.78)
But I see you're not writing about them.
jon (54:59.437)
My two daughters go to Edinburgh and I mean I adore the city now and Jazz is going to go up there for a PhD so I'll be out there and adore the city again. She's got something in her make-up about being up there. She just loves it. Every time I go up there I feel very much at home.
Tim Parkin (55:10.347)
Excellent. The place grows on you.
Tim Parkin (55:23.683)
It'd be handy if you bought a house in the Highlands, it?
jon (55:27.897)
hope Steph's listening Steph. No, but it would be lovely guys believe me I mean my heart is up there I must admit my photographic heart is up there as well but I don't think that's something we'd be able to do but if the kids are up there one day well that'll be nice we can come and visit you know that'll be that'll be lovely.
Tim Parkin (55:30.029)
Hahaha
Mark LJ (55:44.544)
Yeah, there's worse places to be.
Tim Parkin (55:45.667)
It's a different world. Well, thank you. Thank you very much, John. been great chatting. And I was looking back through the old issues of OnLandscape and looking at the old articles from a decade ago, I think, wasn't it? And that's what we wanted to catch up and see what you've been doing.
jon (55:49.457)
Love your chat to you guys.
jon (55:59.441)
EYES
Yeah, yeah, no thanks guys. Yeah, I have been doing this a long time now, yeah, I genuinely have, yeah, so, but it's been lovely.
Tim Parkin (56:10.775)
Perhaps we can talk into doing an article for the magazine at some point from the year from your ass in trip.
jon (56:15.889)
It's my pleasure, mate. I just try and keep myself out there as much as I can, which is not difficult nowadays because there's so many of us out there doing it now.
Mark LJ (56:21.228)
Yep.
I love the idea of doing the boot with your darned, I think that's great. That's really nice. Really nice. Yeah. No, lovely.
Tim Parkin (56:24.567)
Thank you. Thank you, Mark.
jon (56:29.445)
Yeah, that gives me lot of pleasure even just thinking about that really appeals. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you guys ever so much.
Tim Parkin (56:33.795)
Thank you.
I'll just stop that for now. yeah, that's cool. Thank you.
