Episode Fourteen with Special Guest, Paula Pell-Johnson
Tim Parkin (00:01.264)
Hello and welcome to On Landscape. I'm here with our co-host, Joe Cornish, and our special guest, Paula Pell Johnson. Paula, we've known for quite a long time. She manages and owns a business that sells, what do call it? Just high-end camera equipment. That'd be a super description.
Paula (00:23.751)
Yeah, I guess it is a good description. I guess what I say is, yeah, cameras requiring bellows mostly. Yeah, so specialist movements and things that go on them. Yeah.
Tim Parkin (00:39.93)
So hence, it would have been anywhere from large format and ultra large format film cameras all the way to the current generation of medium format digital backs and cameras.
Paula (00:52.727)
Yeah, yes. mean, yeah, from before when I got, I think I was involved with the ultra. Well, we do still occasionally sell the ultra large formats, but there was a time in the 90s when, you know, the 2020 by four camera was pride of place in our showroom in London. And so, yeah, I got in got into that, I think probably in the early 90s or late 80s. And before that, yeah, I guess we started just with Linhoff.
That was our beginning. And then as time moved on, we've added other products that fit into the same mold.
Tim Parkin (01:33.136)
I'm intrigued as to how you started the business, how and why you started the business.
Paula (01:38.397)
well, I can't take credit for that. That's a family thing. So my father used to work for a company called Pally and Cross that many of us will, many of us of a certain age will remember. And he worked there when we came back from Canada. And in Canada, he had been involved in selling Linhoff cameras.
Joe Cornish (01:54.67)
you
Paula (02:05.015)
I think before we went there, he was a small engineering firm, but always had a passion with photography. And so when he came back, he was with Pellingham Cross, who had taken on the Linhoff Agency. And they opened a little store in Crawford Street just around the corner, just for Linhoff. And my father ran that and things progressed from there. He then had the agency after Pellingham Cross.
And I, as you do in many things, you you roll into helping dad out, working with him. And sadly, my father passed away when I was very young. In those days, yeah, we were still just doing Linhoff. And so the progression carried on after that.
Tim Parkin (02:56.688)
And the name, Linhoff Studio, I mean, that sort of suggests you did some photography as well, is that right? Right, yeah.
Paula (03:02.467)
No, not at all. Originally, the company was called Linhoff Professional Sales. And when I started doing some other products, the first product I think we took on was Hensel Lighting, second product. And for reasons I honestly couldn't tell you now, we ran it as a separate company called Studio Professional Sales. And many years later, when we decided to become a limited company, we
Tim Parkin (03:25.008)
Bye.
Paula (03:31.065)
for a random record at the Newhouse Studio. And that's what we've stayed as. Yes, that's all it is.
Tim Parkin (03:37.104)
combination.
Joe Cornish (03:38.05)
And it's stuck. Sorry, Paul, I just I want to make full declaration here because I must be one of your oldest customers. I think the only fair to let everybody know that oldest in both respects, indefinitely in age. And I must say, I remember the Crawford Street shop. I think the first time I came to the shop, Colin Pryor had an exhibition there. Does that ring a bell? Ring a bell.
Paula (04:05.549)
Well, Crawford Street was when it was still under Pellingham Crosses. We were in Marchmont Street. Yes, and we did. We enjoyed there some really, really lovely exhibitions, actually. Yeah, yes, Colin Pyer had an exhibition. I think one of my favorite that sticks in my mind was an exhibition we did called Take Six Assistance.
Joe Cornish (04:12.083)
Okay March months three
Paula (04:32.777)
And we had Bailey's assistant, Dov Kander's assistant, whole, yeah, six of them, six eclectic guys who've all gone on to do very well for themselves. Yeah, that's kind of the one that sticks in my mind the most, but we did enjoy some very, very nice exhibition spaces. Yep, we did.
Joe Cornish (04:54.114)
Fantastic. the other story, Tim, I should just say, by the way, if anybody's watching this, that I'm in my van down in Norfolk. So the wonders of modern technology. whereas Tim has 3000 high mountains just outside his window, I've got flat landscape forever here. anyway, but I've been, should say also been using an Alpa this morning.
Tim Parkin (04:54.33)
So what was your first purchase?
Tim Parkin (05:14.987)
you
Joe Cornish (05:22.422)
and that is one I acquired from you along with all the lenses as a work. And one of the things that you and I discussed a lot over the years is the way that you can apply the kind of traditional technologies with contemporary digital capture. And actually to me, that's one of the most exciting aspects of...
Paula (05:25.657)
Very good. Yeah.
Yeah.
Paula (05:47.023)
Absolutely. I sit very happily here between my analogue and digital world. yeah, mean, well, obviously we are selling, I would say, majority of cameras with bellows, particularly designed for the digital era and digital backs or adapters for mirrorless cameras.
It is, I mean, I'm looking at my shelf behind me of items that are out packing today. Out goes brand new Master Technica 5.4 and yeah, Sylvester FlexiCam, which takes a nice digital back. And I was thinking back actually to what you asked Joe, Tim, about what was the first purchase from me. We won't say how many years ago. And I was...
Guessing it was probably a technique. Do you think it was, Jo?
Joe Cornish (06:45.216)
It was a lens, actually. I have to say, Paula, it was my great regret that you never managed to sell me an ebony because I had to, I think I got them from somewhere else, but that was my favorite camera. But I did buy lenses.
Paula (06:48.099)
Those are legs!
Paula (06:57.103)
yeah, was. It was young David, that young David Ward, think, whose first purchase was a Technica, because what made me think of it is that actually we, you know, I do think nowadays and again, part of this pleasure of mixing and matching analog with digital is it is almost it's just a world of it's a world of adapters and flange focal distances, not to be forgotten. And one of our most successful little products is
Joe Cornish (07:04.418)
it was.
Paula (07:25.839)
a graph lock adapter to put on, for example, you know, a Linho 5.4 camera that could be 40, 50 years old to accept, you know, the latest Hasselblad CFE 100C digital back. Yeah, and whilst perhaps some of the wide lenses, it won't cope with for a lot of work with camera movements. It's, if you've got it, use it. That's what I say.
Joe Cornish (07:50.444)
And for studio work, particularly where longer lenses are more likely to be used and those older close-up corrected lenses, that makes a very good combination as well. It's one of the miracles of the technology that in some ways that the backs, although they're very, very expensive, but you can acquire lenses for, well, not quite peanuts, but not a lot of money. And especially on the Linhoff platforms with the flat panel, very simple, bellows and...
Paula (08:18.701)
without the helical focusing now. Yeah. And it's an interesting one that a lot of them stand up really well. I mean, there is sadly no definitive list just as we've got, you know, if we decide to use classic CF Hasselblad lenses with the latest 100 digital back, I've got some guys who'll say, my God, I've tried that lens and it's absolutely amazing. And for others, it's like, yep.
Joe Cornish (08:20.982)
Yes. Yeah.
Paula (08:44.195)
No, it's great learning curve, but actually I need to move on and get another lens. And whether that's a variation in the optics itself or the customer's own personal degree of wants. But again, with analog lenses as well, mean, a lot of those earlier analog lenses do stand up very well, very well indeed. So that's great.
Joe Cornish (09:10.382)
They do.
Tim Parkin (09:11.876)
You're still using an old large format lens on your 150 megapixel camera, I believe,
Joe Cornish (09:19.158)
You're quite right, Tim. And in fact, Paula very kindly lent me the latest technology lens, the legendary, I think it's fair to say, Rodenstock 138 f6.5 maximum aperture lens to test some of my analog lenses against. And although there's no doubt the Rodenstock 138 is an astonishing optic, it really in field terms for what I need, my
105 mil Nickel W and my 150 mil Suriname S, so that's Nikon and Rodent stock respectively, held up well. which is not to say they're at sharp, but really for so many field applications where absolute sharpness is less important than the general impression, the rendering, the sense of depth that the image is with enough detail.
Paula (09:53.657)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Cornish (10:13.458)
I mean, it might sound sacrilege to say it, but ultimate sharpness is not the main thing. really is. So long as the lens has good qualities of the roll off of focus and sufficient.
Paula (10:24.495)
Yeah, I mean, I agree. think it's so much variable upon, as you say, the application. think, as you say, for your application, for someone else who's wanting to do still life or whatever, then perhaps wouldn't render so well for them. But I think one of the most common sentences I say when I'm talking to people and advising them on their lenses is the further away you are from the sensor.
the more you can get away with with Alouda. And it usually always ends up that it's that wide angle solution that you've really got to get right. And the rest actually, if you've got some large format lenses, I always say to people, use those first, find out how you feel about them and you might find you need to go no further.
Joe Cornish (10:53.038)
I'm still feeling.
Joe Cornish (11:12.142)
And you're just talking literally a few hundred pounds. sorry, Tim, just to confirm that, know, you're 150, 180, 210, 240, 300, many of those optics are available. Very good condition with, with still with fully working shutters for I'm going to, well, you're the expert, Paula, but I'd say between three and 800 pounds.
Tim Parkin (11:12.826)
got it.
Paula (11:35.343)
Yeah, yeah, you're not far off actually. yeah. Some of them are creeping up. know, the Apo Serenade S lenses creeping up in value a fair bit. And a lot of it, you know, the thing is as well with those analog lenses is they span so many years. So yeah, there is quite a variation on price, you know, and if we look at something like the Lars Schneider lenses, the 80 Super Simars, then they tend to be...
Still a bit more than that, but still a lot less than our digital solutions, yes.
Joe Cornish (12:09.228)
fascinating facts about those old lenses I always think anyway it's at least one or two they're actually slightly radioactive aren't they before the European Union introduced a new directive on what materials could be used I forget what the what the mineral is that was used in them but that's correct isn't
Tim Parkin (12:27.31)
It's the Cthulhu that was used in quite a few.
Paula (12:29.839)
Yeah. Yeah, I wish someone had told me that years ago. I might have paid more to the amount of time I've spent around optics. Exactly. Yes.
Joe Cornish (12:34.414)
That's why I explain a lot.
Look at that lens to clean it.
Tim Parkin (12:46.074)
I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued in how,
Joe Cornish (12:46.222)
The other thing you did.
Sorry, Tim, we're crossing the table here.
Tim Parkin (12:50.352)
all right. Yeah, no, I was going to mention... Go on, Joe, you go.
Joe Cornish (12:57.016)
Well, a couple of things. One is before we move on, must get readers questions, of course, for Paula. is tripods are a big part of what you do and tripod heads and filters. you're a full service company in terms of what you supply photographers and especially landscape and outdoor photographers. So I just wanted to mention that. again, think tripods are an area where your expertise and support is really appreciated.
Paula (13:12.611)
Joe's frozen.
Paula (13:25.645)
or both of you have frozen, which just leaves me here, perhaps online or perhaps not.
Tim Parkin (13:31.406)
I've lost Paula a little bit, think, maybe.
Joe Cornish (13:33.292)
We have.
Hopefully that will come back. yes.
Tim Parkin (13:40.01)
We're not live so we can cut this bit out until she's back I think.
Joe Cornish (13:42.996)
Yeah okay. Tim have you got some good questions?
Paula (13:47.565)
No Interconnect connection. no.
Tim Parkin (13:48.696)
I've got a couple of questions, not so many, but I was going to raise questions about film and the transition to digital and then the repopularity of film coming back again. So I've got few bits like that. But if we can do the questions between us mostly, that'd be cool.
Paula (13:54.411)
It was young David, that young David Ward, think, whose first purchase was a Technica. Because what made me think of it is that actually we, you know, I do think nowadays, and again, part of this pleasure of mixing and matching analog with digital, is it is almost, it's just a world of, it's a world of adapters and flange focal distances, not to be forgotten. And one of our most successful little products is a graph lock adapter to put on.
Joe Cornish (14:02.732)
Yeah, great, great idea.
Tim Parkin (14:11.15)
I'm sure she'll be joining us again in a second.
Joe Cornish (14:13.07)
Yeah, I was going to say she's probably just ducking out and rejoining, but her signal wasn't very good, at least image wise, from my point of view. Are you seeing me okay? I mean, you look perfectly clear.
Paula (14:21.039)
for example, a Linov 5.4 camera that could be 40, 50 years old to accept the latest Hasselblad CFE 100C digital back. And whilst perhaps some of the wide lenses it won't cope with for a lot of work with camera movements, it's, if you've got it, use it. That's what I say.
Tim Parkin (14:25.392)
I think you and Paul are a bit blocky from my end. But I'm not sure if that lowers it to the lowest comedy nominator, I don't know. But it'll be good enough when it's recorded. It's just a delay that's frustrating sometimes, isn't it?
Joe Cornish (14:30.114)
Okay.
Joe Cornish (14:37.676)
Yeah, and ultimately it doesn't.
Joe Cornish (14:42.316)
Yeah, it is. I don't know if you can edit that at all, or a little bit. Sorry if I'm.
Tim Parkin (14:46.8)
It'll be fine. What I'll do is, but like in that little stumble, I'll just cut out that little bit and go straight to the question.
It's interesting that the popularity of those lenses, like you say, the Shiren RSs and the AT Super XLs and the 110s, they're all driven by that large format lens. know, the future classics web page. Yeah.
Joe Cornish (15:04.856)
Thank
Joe Cornish (15:10.465)
No really! I've got that web page in my...
Paula (15:11.843)
without the helical focusing now. Yeah. And it's an interesting one that a lot of them stand up really well. I mean, there is sadly no definitive list just as we've got, you know, if we decide to use classic CF Hasselblad lenses with the latest 100 digital back, I've got some guys who'll say, my God, I've tried that lens and it's absolutely amazing. And for others, it's like, yep.
Tim Parkin (15:15.98)
All those lenses that are on that page are the most expensive lenses secondhand.
Joe Cornish (15:16.078)
Okay, fine.
Joe Cornish (15:20.686)
That is quite funny.
Paula (15:23.751)
I'm sorry about that little technical hitch there. There is me, I just made myself. What do you do with frozen being on location and something noticed both of you were? Yeah, so sorry about that. I don't know what happened. Glitch on the internet. Where were we?
Tim Parkin (15:26.255)
That's all.
Tim Parkin (15:35.247)
Not from the soul.
Paula (15:37.325)
No, it's great learning curve, but actually I need to move on and get another lens. And whether that's a variation in the optics itself or the customer's own personal degree of wants. But again, with analog lenses as well, mean, a lot of those earlier analog lenses do stand up very well, very well indeed. So that's great.
Tim Parkin (15:38.552)
Yeah, I can cut that out anyway, because we're not live. was just saying to Joe about the fact that the popularity of the lenses, a certain set of lenses, like the 80 SuperSIMR, 110 SuperSIMR, the SIREN RSs, were mostly driven by one web page they called the Future Classics. So it reviewed what were the lightweight lenses you could take out that had the highest resolution.
And all those lenses now are the most expensive secondhand lenses available. So it's quite intriguing.
Paula (16:13.255)
It kind of looks it that way, have to say. I mean, from my point of view, it is just the fact that they were the very last design manufactured in a sense. So I kind of feel it's a little bit more that reason, modern classics. yeah, yeah. And even now, some of the digitals, I guess, could have that labeling, things like the
Tim Parkin (16:22.49)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (16:30.384)
So the modern classics as it were.
Paula (16:42.343)
43mm F-Digital XL and the 60mm are quite sought after lenses, the XL versions and the 120mm Schneider Aspheric digital as well. It's quite difficult to get hold of.
Mm-hmm.
Tim Parkin (16:54.608)
Yeah. I wanted to ask about the transition from film to digital and from your perspective, because I know it was a transition that was sort of spread over 15 years from what I can see or maybe slightly longer. And then I'm going to follow it up and ask a little bit about the resurgence of popularity of film in certain respects. But yeah, what...
Paula (17:17.615)
Yeah, I mean, I agree. think it's so much variable upon, as you say, the application. think, as you say, for your application, for someone else who's wanting to do still life or whatever, then perhaps wouldn't render so well for them. But I think one of the most common sentences I say when I'm talking to people and advising them on their lenses is the further away you are from the sensor.
Tim Parkin (17:21.784)
What was the driver, as far as your customers were concerned, moving from film to digital in terms of product? I know the advantages and disadvantages mostly.
Paula (17:31.727)
Yeah, yes, it's an interesting one, isn't it? I think it started, you know, for me, I think it was a photo keener, maybe about in the early 90s, and really thinking, this is, this is moving fast. And having a dinner with a lot of friends of mine in the industry, and, you know, talking about where it would be going and thinking, God, I wonder if actually all I'm going to be selling is antique cameras in the future.
the more you can get away with Vidaldao. And it usually always ends up that it's that wide angle solution that you've really got to get right. And the rest actually, if you've got some large format lenses, I always say to people, use those first, find out how you feel about them, and you might find you need to go no further.
And it's a strange place to find that I'm still here, that if you need camera movements, whatever your medium might be, it's still relevant. And strange that we've seen, at that time we had Bronica and the Fuji cameras and so many of those medium format cameras where medium format now has based ourselves around medium format digital.
Yeah, yeah, you're not far off actually. yeah. Some of them are creeping up. know, the Apo Serenade S lenses creeping up in value a fair bit. And a lot of it, you know, the thing is as well with those analog lenses is they span so many years. So yeah, there is quite a variation on price, you know, and if we look at something like the Lars Schneider lenses, the 80 Super Simars, then they tend to be...
the traditional of those we've seen disappear, which I kind of didn't expect to see. But I think in the early days, was customers coming with their 5.4 gear, wanting to look at the possibilities of digital and how to use them on a camera.
Paula (18:54.533)
with movements. And of course, in those days, there was no live view, was no single sensors, et cetera. But fundamentally, really, other than the connection to what they had, it was the same questions regarding anything. Where do I go? What's my image circle? What's my equivalent focal length and angle of view? And those same questions cropped up, whether it was five by four and they were going to put a roll film back on.
Still a little bit more than that, but still a lot less than our digital solutions, yes.
Paula (19:21.511)
although we're suddenly going to put a much smaller sensor on. But yes, mean, now, course, with the excellent live view and the CMOS sensors, we have the smaller sensor of 33 by 44 compared to Joseph's lovely 40 by 54. But of course, the ease of use and the workflow is so different. So the days of sliding backs, ground glass screens tend to be really...
Yeah. Yeah, I wish someone had told me that years ago. I might have paid more to the amount of time I've spent around optics. Exactly.
Yes.
Paula (19:50.503)
I think of the past now.
Joe Cornish (19:53.502)
I'm just going to jump in because I think that there's a couple more things to mention. In those early days, there was such a thing as a scanning bag. Did you ever sell one?
Paula (20:05.063)
No, but funny enough later on where I did, I was involved with a company in Germany and we were selling very high resolution scanning backs for archival photography before the digital backs got there, if you like, for the resolution. But no, not the very early days. But you know, I'm thinking back, I think the first one I was involved with at an exhibition was DykeMed.
Joe's frozen.
Paula (20:18.775)
or both of you have frozen, which just leaves me here, perhaps online or perhaps not.
Paula (20:29.807)
Mmm.
I think the price tag of that was sort of 50,000, know, the end of the 90s maybe. But hey, the same comparison could be made with the price of mobile phones, couldn't it really?
No, connection.
Paula (20:46.831)
Apparently not. Reload site. Changes she made me. Reload.
Tim Parkin (20:50.884)
Definitely. Yeah. Did you ever deal with a company called Sites?
Joe Cornish (20:52.993)
It's a-
Paula (20:55.524)
sites.
Tim Parkin (20:57.016)
Yeah, they used to make a panoramic digital camera that had a scanning back on it that was about 300 megapixel.
Paula (20:57.433)
Just having a look at my... I've got no internet.
Yes, it's still around and I have close connections with Alper. lot of their parts are together with that. So I don't have, if you like, direct dealings with them. So there was different arms to it. But yeah.
Tim Parkin (21:07.436)
Okay.
Tim Parkin (21:14.928)
It's interesting you mentioning about medium format film as well. Do you sell any medium format film cameras and are they popular at all?
Paula (21:23.547)
A little. Funny enough, yeah, if you get something like a little 6ix9ine Technica or a 6ix9ine Technicardan, because I do have a lot of clients who want to still do film and digital. It's very easy to put that word again, adapter, on the rear of one of those small cameras and pop a digital back on those. And of course, for a camera with a lot of movements, they're
really quite small. So in a way, the little six, nine technicus have found a new lease of life. Yeah.
Paula (22:02.693)
I mean, equally, just almost as if you like, could take, all right, so we can look at Alper and Joe could put a roll film back onto his Alper instead of his face back. And even something like the little cambo actuses, you can put a ground glass screen and an adapter to put a roll film back on those. But in a world when if you put your digital back on, you've got your lovely live view and you can zoom in.
Tim Parkin (22:02.872)
and
Paula (22:31.003)
but those cameras, your ground glass focusing, remove ground glass, pop the roll film back on. so, yeah, much more as though we were, you know, how we used to all do it all the time.
Joe Cornish (22:46.062)
It's fascinating the way that the technology has changed. I've been somebody said to me the other day, you got into digital too early, which I know because the people at the time were telling me I was got into digital too late. So I feel thoroughly confused. But I think I bought my techno from you, Paula, in 2008. That's all. At I ordered it in 2008. Yeah, I think it arrived in, you know, nine.
Tim Parkin (22:46.97)
to.
Paula (23:10.545)
Gosh, was it really?
Joe Cornish (23:15.336)
And I'm now my second techno, which you very kindly supplied me with a few months ago. So the camera, the original camera lasted really well, but it took water hammering it took over the years. And it's still being used by a friend of mine, I should say. So that's good.
Paula (23:20.519)
you
Paula (23:33.743)
Yes, that's not quite such a hammering joke.
Joe Cornish (23:37.038)
Hopefully not. I mean, what you say that's really, really transformed things is the backside illuminated CMOS sensors, which give really excellent live view. Really working, going from a 5x4 film camera to an early CCD sensor digital back with a ground glass screen was horrible.
Paula (23:49.252)
Yeah
Joe Cornish (24:04.718)
really in retrospect.
Paula (24:07.365)
Yeah, and of course, the Magenta casts, the LCC corrections. whilst we know that homogenet cast is a thing of the past, and whilst we might still have some vignetting going on that might need correcting, that's perfectly doable. And of course, what it's also done is resurrect some lenses that were really awful to use with earlier digital backs, something like the 35.
still not my favourite lens, have to say. It just sits so close to the sensor. But now, of course, you you haven't got a horrendously strong magenta cast that was almost just... If it was corrected, there was just too much noise in the image, you know, plus still your vignetting. Now it is a workable alternative. And many of those lenses that proved troublesome in earlier days have had a new lease of life also.
Tim Parkin (25:08.152)
intrigued from that point of view of the the Copal shutter situation as well and and and combined that with the global shutter on cameras and can you can you tell us a little bit about that transition some
Paula (25:21.755)
Yeah, I mean, that has been a tricky one. I mean, certainly now I think where we are with live view and CMOS sensors and the length of time it's been, now very happily accept aperture only. So a new RodeoShot lens is simply in an aperture only mount with no shutter blades at all. It's a lovely, smooth IRS. It works perfectly.
But of course, there is still a lot of people who want to use analog lenses, who perhaps have an earlier back, don't always, who want to use flash even. They're then needing that copal shutter. And I'd like to think that we do very well to support them. I have a diminishing selection of...
Copal shutters new and we I think are very fortunate in having a good amount of spares as well. also in terms of, mean a number of times I'll have someone who might email me and say my Copal shutters finally given up the ghost. What do I do? Is aperture only the only, you know, solution? And quite often through going well, what's actually wrong with this shutter? I mean, clearly if the casing is cracked, there's nothing we can do, you know, but more often than not we can
get them back up and running. You know, we keep a good stock of main springs, return springs, etc. parts. But yes, I mean, I always thought when it happens, which I'm not, I'm not even going to try and remember the year. I remember thinking, well, maybe it's going to be a weird five years, and then someone else will come up with a reasonably priced alternative to this mechanical shutter. But actually, when you open one up, you realize it's just
Tim Parkin (27:13.476)
Yeah. Yeah.
Paula (27:18.733)
not ever going to be an affordable manufactured item in today's world.
Tim Parkin (27:25.391)
Yeah.
Joe Cornish (27:26.744)
So we're not going to see an impossible shutter company then like the... Do remember that? Impossible Polaroid or whatever...
Paula (27:33.595)
Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, I would be one. Well, one thing I have learned over years in this industry is never say never. But I'd be very surprised. Yeah, very surprised. You never know.
Tim Parkin (27:47.44)
I have taken one apart before now to have a look at see if I can lubricate it, service it myself. And yeah, it scared me and I put it back together very quickly.
Paula (27:56.389)
Yeah, yeah, it is, it is.
Joe Cornish (27:57.558)
Just hypothetically, could you not actually create a universal shutter that sits in front of the lens and just, you know, you could use it with any lens and probably had to be quite large. Is there such an idea? Does that make sense?
Paula (28:14.167)
Yeah, mean, logically, I mean, if we could go back, God knows how many years when actually there was a focal plane shutter, wasn't there, you know, that used to slide into the rear of a plate camera. And a universal shutter wouldn't be particularly a new thing. mean, SINAR had a similar concept. But that was still... Sorry.
Tim Parkin (28:14.756)
Yes.
Tim Parkin (28:34.32)
I think it's the size issue, isn't it? Mostly I think it's the size issue and hence the weight issue because they have to cover such an area, especially for wide angle lenses. I think if you've got a small aperture telephoto or normal, it would be okay. Although people do make drop shutters still. So it's basically a box that goes on from the camera with two blades with a gap. So it's like a, it's like a focal plane shutter, but it's gravity driven and you just change the gap.
Paula (28:45.551)
Mm. Yep.
Paula (28:57.031)
Where are you?
Tim Parkin (29:02.318)
between their blades, drop it. So that's used quite often with old, very old Petzfeld lenses and the such like.
Joe Cornish (29:03.553)
That's cool.
Paula (29:09.935)
Now, I'm not sure, I think the main thing that I would say is that people who are looking for this alternative do apply it to, or want to apply it to modern work, to work nowadays. And whether that be studio, because they're using flash or whatever, and therefore it's got to be a functional in all circumstances type of alternative. yeah. Meanwhile, we'll just keep servicing and hopefully providing solutions.
Yeah. And then of course, there is the Phase 1X shutter.
Tim Parkin (29:42.32)
I'm intrigued.
Joe Cornish (29:46.83)
There is, which is amazing and it does work really, really well, but it's limited to the camo and the Phase One XT at the moment, I think. Isn't that right?
Paula (29:47.554)
Paula (29:51.224)
Yeah, yeah.
Paula (29:57.959)
Yeah, mean, well, the X-Shutter can be used on any camera. It could even be, I could mount one for a 5.4 Master Technica, but it has to be driven by the IQ4. So it is only for Phase 1 users with IQ4 digital backs. And again, one those things where perhaps they might roll that out to a wider audience, but not yet.
Tim Parkin (29:58.192)
Can you explain what that is? don't know what that is.
Paula (30:27.771)
But never say never.
Joe Cornish (30:28.29)
think it's worth maybe, sorry, Tim, just to come in at this point and say that, you for anybody who's listening and wondering what is driving this conversation from a landscape photography point of view and bearing in mind that we are on landscape here, what makes these cameras so attractive and so amazing is not just the resolution, but is perspective control and focus control. So, you know, just briefly.
to say that tilt and swings is something that virtually all Linhoff cameras feature, Paula, because of the flexibility of the bellows, and they're all bellows designs. And then, of course, offsets. So large image circle of a lens allows you to move the capture area, the film area, or the digital capture back around in relation to the image circle, which means that you can keep the camera upright if you choose to do so.
And I think that's, to me, I just wanted to say, I still find that really has great utility and it means that you feel so much more involved in the decision making process rather actually out in the field. think that although I occasionally will use corrections, perspective corrections in post-production, I far prefer to do it in the field. Tim, I don't know whether you have a similar.
sort of view of that or not. Interested to know.
Tim Parkin (31:59.448)
If I could get a digital camera that handled perspective control well, I'd love to use one. I'd be very happy. on an SLR, it's very difficult. There aren't many good lenses. I'd love to see a, I think we talked about this when you were up in Scotland recently. We'd love to see a two-time zoom lens with a good tilt shift adapter on it. And we've talked about the possibility of
Maybe Sigma could do it one day. But having movement's brilliant. And it's one of the main reasons that I still like using the large format camera. Because there's something about the look is different. There's a look of a large format lens. Big lenses just look nice. I don't think there's many smaller lenses that have a similar rendering. mean, there's exceptions. But it is.
Joe Cornish (32:30.626)
Yes, yeah.
Paula (32:52.615)
And I think, you know, there's also price points here. And I think sometimes, you know, if these manufacturers do come out with these optics and they look at adding the tilt shift, they're not, they're not an easy price point for all to purchase. And actually, then when you start to look at that price point and go look at some of the price points of digital backs nowadays, and cameras
with movements, then there are alternatives that allow more scope for work, for the same money, not a lot more. I think my choice would always be to try and do so. A, in camera, as you said, Jo, and B, obviously, with a camera with bellows. that's probably because that's what I do. But listening to my...
customers who come to me who quite often have tried these solutions or are looking for a solution and go through all the options. I'm very pleased to say there's a very healthy number of them decide to do it the way we're used to doing it.
Tim Parkin (34:07.792)
One of our questions from a reader is, I'll go through it briefly. It's from Ewan McNeil. And he was saying, I'm looking forward to getting my first large format camera for my project on Kickstarter. My ultimate intention is to use black and white film on a 120 roll film back, possibly. However, I've never used a view camera before. And I would like to try and experiment with a digital alternative.
And the summary is really what are your thoughts on digital simulation of large format cameras? What options are there on the market? And what would you recommend for somebody who is interested? And let's say it's from a landscape point of view rather than the studio.
Paula (34:52.079)
It's a question to Joe or question to me.
Tim Parkin (34:54.576)
Question to you about, you know, adapting GSXs or sensors to back.
Paula (34:58.727)
It reminds me very much in the days before digital when someone was moving to large format for the first time. And in those days, we could happily recommend that they had a Polaroid back. And I would say to them, despite obviously reading a little bit and cracking those swings and tilt movements in terms of the principle of it, the cheapest way to learn was to waste a couple of packs of Polaroid film.
and immediately see what you have done right or wrong. of course, yes, therefore, being able to put some kind of digital camera on the rear of the 5.4 that he's going to buy or whatever is a greater turn. Anything where you can immediately see what you've done right or wrong. I'm a bit of a fan of the fact that you learn quicker from the things you did wrong than the things you did right.
And for a lot of them, once you've done it wrong one time, you don't do that again. And yeah, if someone's got a GFX for not a lot of money, there's an adapter that they could put it on the rear of whatever 5.4 camera and use that great live view screen to immediately do that. Obviously, what we have to remember is that a
flange focal distance of lenses, if he's got a wide lens or a particular shot he wants to do, he might not in his camera be able to get a lens close enough to it because he's got to take into consideration the depth of that sensor in his GFX body. So if he's got a 90, let's say he's got a 90 millimeter lens with a 90 millimeter flange focal distance, he's got to take off of that. What's the flange focal distance of the GFX? Probably about off the top of my head, 27.
point something I think or somewhere around that. So he's got to take off, I would say safely 30 mil or add on 30 mil. No, take off 30 mil. So suddenly he sits it where a 60 millimeter would have sat, which is just about do it. But you can understand, therefore even a standard lens of on that sensor is 60, 65 mil or something, he's going to be down at about 35, 40 and his bellows might not go close enough together.
Joe Cornish (36:54.007)
It is.
Tim Parkin (37:06.863)
Yes.
Paula (37:20.667)
But in the terms of learning, doesn't matter what lens. The principle's the same.
Tim Parkin (37:21.006)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (37:27.472)
And from the point of view of, mean, I'll approach it from a slightly different angle from the here is, if you were going to recommend a lens or a system for a landscape photographer to get into using cameras with movements, what's the current best option or options?
Joe Cornish (37:27.82)
Yeah, and that's your fact.
Paula (37:49.116)
I'm really sorry, I missed that question.
Tim Parkin (37:51.62)
That's okay. If I'm a landscape photographer and I want to get into using medium format with movements.
Paula (37:59.803)
wanted to get into medium format with movements with digital? What would I be thinking? Well, unless if they really don't have anything. there tends to be a role of circumstances where I sort of am saying, okay, do you own any previous medium format systems? Do you own any large format systems? So let's assume the answer to all of those is simply no.
Tim Parkin (38:05.934)
With digital, yes.
Paula (38:27.015)
I guess my first protocol is to show them the cambo actor system, because I just think it's a little universal system. You can't beat it. It's small, therefore it's not as scary. And the front standard, if you like, where we normally just pop our lens on a lens board into the front, the whole front standard is the lens board. And you can use large format lenses.
But what's really interesting is that actually you have a range of front standards that offer adapters for Mamiya lenses, Hasselblad lenses, you name it. If it's feasible to use to open the aperture so that you can use the inbuilt shutter of the digital back, then you have a lot of options. I mean, you could even use an existing Canon or Nikon lens, but of course,
Again, for learning, fine, but Image Circle wouldn't necessarily cover the 33 by 44 sensor, for example. Sorry, Joe, I'm not negating 40 by 54 as a beautiful sensor size at all, but generally, someone who's got phase isn't going to be in this conversation looking for first time. They're going to be either with their GFX, which can go on the rear, their X2D, which can go on the rear.
or something like the Hasbro 907X and putting the digital back on. So I think that would be my...
Joe Cornish (39:56.91)
And on that note, sorry, Paul, just to explain for anybody who doesn't isn't familiar, but is interested Hasselblad actually probably make the most usable direct digital back now and also most affordable in the form of the CFB 100 is it? think it's it's a hundred
Paula (40:01.265)
Sorry.
Paula (40:21.263)
It's got a ridiculous name. Bear with me. Here we go. Here's what I made earlier. had a little selection of it. So here's what I made earlier. So 907X of Sorry Joe, After You.
Joe Cornish (40:24.622)
See this is useful because we actually have the supply right behind us so we can see what it looks like. and the reason that's... Thank you. No, that's great. The reason I mention that is because that immediately eliminates the problem of flange focal distance because unlike the...
Tim Parkin (40:29.976)
Hey!
Joe Cornish (40:52.494)
Fuji GFX or the Hasselblad X2D or indeed any of the mirrorless cameras that you might apply on an Actis, that doesn't have that problem. That gets you straight into the back of the Actis camera and know, like a face mask. So you can, yeah.
Paula (41:03.431)
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's just straight on, sensors there. Haven't got to consider it being back here. So in terms of wide angle lenses, it's so much easier. Cambo also make now a new rear for their Actis G system that allows the digital back to rotate without having to come off, which is lovely. So yes, 907X CFV100C.
Joe Cornish (41:32.984)
crazy.
Paula (41:34.023)
I don't know. I know. Obviously, we have a few shortened versions of that. But the 907X, just to give people an idea, is simply this front little bit, which, of course, when it's on, makes it the most cute little mirrorless camera, really. So let's not forget that use as well. And although I have a lot of customers who go, I just want the back bit. Don't they sell the back bit? Because I want to put it on camo or whatever.
Joe Cornish (41:35.598)
gonna remember this.
Paula (42:01.147)
They do a range of P lenses, something like the 45 P, which is 800 pounds. And I say to them, you know, for the cost of that little lens to have this as a walk around camera is quite something, I think. Yeah. And of course, there is our 33 by 44 sensor. And it is simply a case of that connecting it to whatever, be it a five four graph lock fit camera.
Tim Parkin (42:09.424)
last
Tim Parkin (42:13.348)
Yeah, that's quite good value.
Paula (42:30.151)
6'9 cameras, cambows, alpers, silvestries.
Tim Parkin (42:36.612)
And that would have no problem with the shading on the sensor that we've mentioned, like the wide angle problems.
Paula (42:42.523)
That has the 100 has the backside illuminated sensor. There previously was a 50 megapixel version of that, which wasn't BSI. So yes, that one would have the more of the magenta cast, but yeah, no backs. It's great.
Joe Cornish (42:42.955)
No, it's
Tim Parkin (43:01.626)
And if you were going with the Actus system, what lenses would you recommend for something like that? Would it be losing legacy lenses, or did they do arrange from newer lenses that work with it?
Paula (43:10.215)
Yeah, you know, that's always such an open question depending on, you know, on whether they have older gear or not. I mean, let's not forget, Cambo have also made a, well, have adapted a series of Acta lenses, some of which, you know, wouldn't stand up to the 100 megapixel, but others would. They offer a really good image circle for that sensor size of 70 mil. And
Tim Parkin (43:14.543)
Mm.
Paula (43:40.283)
Yeah, it goes back to that same thing we said, if extreme wide isn't wanted, I... Earlier analog lenses, I think, can work really well. But always, if we're looking around that 35-30 mark, then we've got to think a little bit more carefully. I would try and look for a 35 rodent stock over the Apo Digitar.
The HR digerons, the beautiful rodent stock lenses, of course, are a great solution because their flange focal distance is longer than their given focal length. But they do come at a price that requires quite a deep pocket. But yes, there are quite a few alternatives.
Joe Cornish (44:32.258)
They are tax deductible, just saying. are quite a few professional photographers who follow on landscapes. You mentioned wide angle polar, but it's worth saying that Rodenstock do make the remarkable 23mm f5.6, I think it is, if anybody's feeling very well off. I think that one is around about £7000, but it's certainly a fantastic lens.
Paula (44:34.831)
Yeah, that's true.
Paula (44:39.695)
Yeah, yeah.
Paula (44:50.065)
They do. They do indeed. And, you know, as that is the most perfect wide angle to use with with these digital backs. I mean, it's six. I can't off the top of my head tell you, but probably around 60 something millimetres away from the sensor. No, that's not true. Probably more like 50, just under 50, but still a lot further away than they give them focal length. And that makes
makes quite a difference, but together with the backside illuminated sensor, that's the goal.
Tim Parkin (45:28.984)
Yeah, we do have a question. I'm not sure how much you know about history of Linhoff cameras, but one of our readers is actually did some work researching an old Scottish photographer. And we sent you a couple of pictures of what sort of cameras he was using. We'll put these online because they're quite interesting. Her project was to go and re-photograph all the postcards that were taken with them.
Paula (45:35.868)
no!
Paula (45:56.773)
Okay.
Tim Parkin (45:58.644)
but it sounds like the large format was something he made himself in terms of sticking a sticking up a normal back and adapting a front standard that had swings and tilts. But I was wondering if you recognize the little reflex camera he had in his hands on, did you get
Paula (46:17.273)
I didn't look at that. Hang on, I should put my glasses on.
Tim Parkin (46:21.306)
I'll see if I can show you on here.
Paula (46:30.471)
is it? Now, Lin-Of, yeah, you've got me here. You've got me here. Now, Lin-Of did make a reflex camera, but I'm not sure that's it. But that does look like it's taking a Technica front lens board, doesn't it? I do have...
Joe Cornish (46:36.182)
It's challenge, a challenge.
Tim Parkin (46:48.088)
Yes, it does. Yeah.
Paula (46:52.783)
Anne, could you pass me the camera story? Yeah, I'll have a look and I'll show a picture of the, but this is before my time. I'm just going to point that out.
Tim Parkin (47:01.68)
Yeah, these cameras would be from he was taking pictures between 1948 and 52 and his cameras were probably I mean, they would have been just at the end of the war, wouldn't they?
Paula (47:14.503)
Yeah, didn't she talk about a format of 10 by 15, which is what, six by four inch? I mean, I...
Tim Parkin (47:20.888)
Yes, yeah. So.
Tim Parkin (47:27.182)
And by 10 centimeters, which would be, is is it a six by nine?
Paula (47:34.001)
think it is. Right amongst yourselves just while I have a quick look in this book and see if I can quickly find that reflex camera.
Tim Parkin (47:34.116)
No, six by nine is, that's not is it? Of it's not.
Paula (47:49.135)
Hmm, okay.
Tim Parkin (47:52.592)
it's a twin lens, yeah.
Paula (47:54.247)
It's a twin lens just trying to shade the light. you go. and isn't it, yeah, the whole top housing and you can see there the rangefinder on the side. 1961 it was designed.
Joe Cornish (47:57.941)
Ow.
Tim Parkin (47:58.296)
That does look like the body of it, but yeah, that's a bit of a monster that is, isn't it?
Tim Parkin (48:10.639)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (48:15.497)
Fascinating. I suspect this looks like some sort of graphlex.
Paula (48:20.699)
Yeah, yes. Yeah, it could be, although I'm not sure it would have taken... I mean, it's difficult to see because it's not a short image, but it's...
Tim Parkin (48:29.375)
Besides it films weird there isn't that inch by four inch that does a little like a six by four camera. I don't think they
Paula (48:36.145)
Six by four inch. No, doesn't. so you think I didn't pick up on that. I was looking at the camera that was on the tripod. But again, I'm not convinced that's that's not a Linhoff, don't Yes, yes, absolutely. But yeah, whilst whilst I do have some knowledge of cameras that are before my time, that one got me.
Tim Parkin (48:38.564)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (48:47.818)
Yeah.
Tim Parkin (48:52.346)
which will do a bit of research for USL.
Tim Parkin (49:06.766)
And one of the things I to mention as film is resurging, and I think it is coming back in popularity, would you say that most people who are starting to use film are using it as an adjunct to their professional digital photography? So it's like a hobby that people are.
Paula (49:13.436)
Bye.
Paula (49:30.243)
Not always hobby. I think in this day and age where, well, I think there's an element where with digital, for some photographers, it's been very, it's a very difficult transient. There are so many people doing that sort of work. It's very competitive.
that to find another niche avenue and find out photography or to talk to art directors will now go, hey, let's shoot this in film, what fun, I don't think it's been done before. So, there is a crossover where I think certainly within, whether driven by art directors or driven by photographers, there are now photographers known for
Tim Parkin (50:01.498)
All right.
Paula (50:25.793)
and shooting film and they've gone back to film. And without a doubt, I can tell you many people who, many who have reinvested in film for their pleasure, because whilst their bread and butter will be now digital, perhaps because, well, because of their love of photography, they want to go back to something that they did enjoy. And generally that follows the rule of perhaps a personality
Tim Parkin (50:28.656)
Yeah.
Paula (50:55.431)
of photographers who aren't as comfortable sitting at a computer screen but didn't get into photography to sit in front of a computer screen and do post work when they would rather be doing it in camera. Joe, thoughts?
Tim Parkin (51:06.703)
Yes.
Joe Cornish (51:12.942)
Well, I do have a lot of thoughts about it and I totally understand the appeal of shooting film. I think there's several reasons that the cameras are undoubtedly more appealing for one thing, partly because they're and they're not. You can make a film camera out of wood quite happily, whereas nobody's making any wooden digital cameras, sadly. And I'm a big advocate of wooden cameras.
David and I used to argue about it until the cows came home back in the day, but we divided into woodies and tinnies is how he used to put it. There is something wonderful about a wooden camera. Personally, I think you could easily adapt a wooden camera to for it to be a perfectly viable digital camera. And that's something I've seriously considered. And I will have another conversation in a few weeks.
Tim Parkin (51:45.36)
Yeah.
Paula (51:46.929)
you
It's true. It's so true.
Paula (52:09.063)
you
Joe Cornish (52:11.47)
But I have to say, I personally love shooting digital and I know that it sounds crazy. thought, you know, 17, 18 years ago that phrase would never be uttered from me anyway. But I think now with the latest sensors, the quality of the signal is so good. And the fact that...
To me, it's a much more creative medium. I can experiment a lot more with it. I play with it more. That's the key. Whereas when I was shooting 554, because it was, you know, five pounds a sheep, ka-ching, every time you took a picture, it's inhibiting. You know, unless you've got very, very deep pockets. And even then, it can be very frustrating because of loss of detail in the highlights or shadows, whereas...
That's really not an issue with almost any kind of photo that you want to make with a digital back and certainly with the Phase 1. So I'm very lucky.
Paula (53:11.757)
Yeah, it's interesting. I you know, there's, I mean, I totally agree. think, you know, the whole workflow, it's a pleasure to be able to shoot with digital nowadays. I think it's also interesting that we have a younger generation who have grown up mainly digital, who see it
just as in a world where we have music and people are still loving vinyl or getting back into vinyl, that we have a genuine love of film. And whether it's because they're intrigued by darkroom process or the fact that they have to wait to see their images in a world where these people aren't used to waiting for anything anymore.
And even not as a profession or as a serious amateur photographer, let's not use that word amateur, I don't like that word, but even in my son's group of friends, for example, I noticed from when they reached their early 20s that they had bought themselves little secondhand 35mm cameras for fun. And whilst that isn't the world we are in,
progresses on to where we are. And I think it's very healthy that we have a good percentage of younger people who are still interested in a technique that fundamentally we wouldn't be here today if that hadn't been where we started. So, yeah, I just, I love the whole cross section of that very much.
Tim Parkin (55:02.874)
I wanted to mention also that one of the other products that you sell is a bunch of products around scanning film or photographing film.
Paula (55:12.615)
Yeah, you know, as digital backs and as cameras like, you know, the GFX100 and XUD, whatever, you know, now we're on this level, then using them and turning them into copying our necks and whatever is a big business. And obviously, if someone's got the camera with movements already, well, that's a very easy step for them to do.
you know, whilst a little advice and holding hands through the importance of alignment when we're doing something of that like that. There's equally a lot of people who simply might have the X2D or GFX and they're looking to do it. we offer Novaflex products, which offer just the most beautiful little reasonably priced bellows that allow that kind of thing with extensions. And it's about just, yeah.
getting the right lens on the front and working through it. For a lot of people, being able to do that slowly in-house, again, it's also quite a pleasurable thing for them to do themselves rather than sending it out for scanning or whatever, isn't it?
Tim Parkin (56:25.934)
Yeah, it's interesting because people want to own the process. It's the people I've spoken to because I did some drum scanning is they have they're creating an artifact that stays in their hands quite often. They're interested in that. I'm ending up with something I've done all myself and it's an artifact that's created. So I think that was quite interesting.
Paula (56:46.279)
Yeah, yeah, it's, yes, it's it's a side of the business that, you know, we take quite seriously. And there's a lot of people out there now with enough excellent equipment to be able to do, to do it really well. Yeah, I think so. Yep. It's another.
Joe Cornish (57:04.526)
I do artwork copying for friends, for painters mainly, and I really enjoy it. I mean, it's not, in theory, it's not a creative, well, it isn't creative. The whole point is you're trying to reproduce what you see in front of you as exactly possible. It is, it is. And it's just really, you're serving someone else, usually another artist, doing your very best for them by being as neutral and completely invisible as possible.
Paula (57:19.333)
It's quite a challenge.
Tim Parkin (57:21.218)
Yeah.
Joe Cornish (57:33.516)
And I think that's a challenge. whether you can, it always used to be done on film, of course, usually with large format, but now with high performance digital capture, whether you do it stitching, because you can collage images together when you're copying flat artwork or using very high resolution back in the first place. As you say, Paula, with the height lens, you can do a lovely job and it's just really enjoyable, especially if you print it a bit.
Paula (57:55.964)
Mm.
Joe Cornish (58:02.574)
because you can literally match the original artwork with the print.
Paula (58:06.097)
Yeah, I think that's a lovely turn of phrase you used, Tim, in owning the process. And I think that can be, I think in a lot of terms, in a lot of things of the side of the industry we're in, that's a very nice turn of phrase we use, whether it's actually capturing the image as well, from in-camera producing it all there before the capture, it's owning
that whole process as well as the scanning, actually. I just thought that was a really nice, yeah, nice sentence. Might use that myself.
Tim Parkin (58:43.12)
One of the photographers I do some scanning for is actually a film director who works on the David Attenborough nature programmes. And he takes a... What would it be? What's the big chunky six by seven camera? It's not a Bronica, it's the other. Mamma Mia, yeah, I think so. But he takes that on set. So he does the extra pictures.
Paula (59:05.67)
Mamiya.
Tim Parkin (59:12.356)
I've been doing some David Attenborough and it's very much he says it's the same thing. It's like he applies his own personal creative style and it's different for him because he's a cinematographer I presume as well.
Paula (59:23.687)
But I think that's exactly the same, different for him, different for everyone. And how fortunate we are that not everyone wants to do things in exactly the same way and that there are many ways to achieve the image that they want. yeah, and long may that live, Otherwise there's really no individuality in it, is there? So, yeah.
Joe Cornish (59:48.587)
Absolutely.
Tim Parkin (59:54.138)
Well, thank you very much for your time, Paula. think we just hit nearly an hour chatting. If people want to look at your website, I'll put a link on the page, it's LinhoffStudio. Is it linhoffstudio.com? Fantastic. So thank you from me, and thank you, Joe.
Paula (01:00:00.017)
Wow, that went quick, it?
Paula (01:00:08.399)
It is, it is, yeah.
Paula (01:00:14.021)
No? Thanks for listening. Good to see you both. Take care.
Joe Cornish (01:00:17.73)
Thanks, Paula. Thank you, Tim.
Tim Parkin (01:00:18.638)
I'll try and stop it now without leaving so we can have a chat. Stop.
